8 ms·

The time I was turned away from China

77 points by panarky 9y ago

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
hartator 9y ago
I feel it’s kind of shady in the first place to use a transit visa to cover tech events. Do this in the US, it’ll be worst.
- Taniwha 9y ago
  The US is just weird, only country i know of that doesn't allow transit. Anywhere else you get off your plane, pass thru security and get back on your outgoing flight. The US seems too cheap to build outgoing immigration booths, and therefore doesn't have real international departure terminals like anywhere else on the planet. I means you can't transit the US without getting a visa
  - redcomplier 9y ago
    I don't think the US is "too cheap" but there is a perceived higher incentive to get in and stay in in the US than many other countries. Not saying its actually true but that seems like a more rational reason than penny pinching by USCIS.
    - Taniwha 9y ago
      It causes all sorts of other problems too - because you don't pass thru immigration as you leave the US you don't get a stamp in your passport, if the system fucks up (it's the airlines who become responsible for processing your exit), the US still thinks you're there, many many people have been caught this way, suddenly found themselves in some detention centre for 'overstaying' because the INS's bookkeeping is out of whack last time they were there. ALWAYS travel to the US carrying the boarding pass from your last departure
  - selectodude 9y ago
    Due to its geography, I can't think of any other country in the world where it would make sense to fly via the US. Mexico and Canada are the only two that would happen, and both have their own large international gateways.
    - cperciva 9y ago
      The USA is a very common transit country for Europe-South America and Asia-South America. It's not uncommon for travel between Europe and New Zealand or the East coast of Australia either.
      - Taniwha 9y ago
        I travel from NZ, these days I choose to go through HKG (and visit the Shenzhen markets, in China) to Europe. My normal experience of entering China is always fast and courteous, entering the US is frankly scary every time, lots of questions about what you're going to do - I show the same business APEC card at both borders (unlike China it's not a visa for the US border, the US is not a full member of APEC, but it does get me in the crew line, and identifies me as a frequent business traveller)
        cperciva 9y ago
        You're not the only person I've heard say that they avoid the TPAC route because they want to avoid the USA. But I've heard people complain that as much as they'd prefer to avoid the USA the flight schedules are far more convenient. Have you tried the ANZ AKL-YVR connecting to ACA YVR-Europe flights? Canada is far happier about transiting passengers than the USA is. (And if you've tried it and didn't like it, I'm curious why.)
        Taniwha 9y ago
        I don't avoid the US if I need to go there, after all I lived there for 20 years, half my adult life, it's home as much as NZ (and I'm currently near the end of a NZ->US->HK->CN->HK->CN->HK->NZ trip) - getting in is the problem, the process is as I said elsewhere a bit scary, once you are there it's generally a nice place to be I haven't tried Vancouver, maybe next time - I do prefer long flights that are overnight so to Europe that means with a daytime (or two) somewhere in the middle
  - SeoxyS 9y ago
    Aside from the inconvenience of clearing immigration on transit (and I can't say I've ever transited _through_ the US, despite clearing US immigration ~50), the airport experience is much nicer. International and domestic flights can leave from the same terminals, go through the same security, and use the same in-terminal facilities. You don't have to go through an outgoing passport control, so half the waiting time. I'm very happy with the system.
  - refurb 9y ago
    Canada does the same thing. Even if transiting you need to be admitted into the country before getting on your connecting flight.
  - bzbarsky 9y ago
    > The US seems too cheap to build outgoing immigration booths Alternately, it's none of the US government's business when people leave the country. It's always struck me as really weird that other countries make you effectively ask for permission to leave...
    - Taniwha 9y ago
      Then why do you bother people who overstay their visas? And people who don't but because you don't stamp their passports when they leave can't prove they acted legally when the INS screws up?
      - bzbarsky 9y ago
        For people on a temporary visa, I guess exit passport control can make sense. For people holding the country's passport, it just doesn't. As far as that goes, I've had my passport not be stamped plenty of times on leaving countries that _do_ have exit passport control (e.g. France), so the problem you describe is present even there.
dreamfactored 9y ago
Author says he doesn't touch political topics and then says he's covered censorship. This is the kind of thing which contributes to China being a total PITA with travel and internet
redcomplier 9y ago
I'm not sure on the merit of if this person should or should not be allowed into China but this happens to people everyday at US boarder control (especially from non-European countries) who are not even in media but doctors and lawyers. And America proclaims to be much more open than China so this isn't as strange as it seems. Something that made me think was how the author waffles between being a "journalist" and being a "blogger". Bloggers do this all the time and it's troubling. In cases where important part of a story they wrote turns out to be wrong, or invades someone privacy, they just shrug their shoulders and say "Well, im a blogger, sorry!". When they are not taken seriously, the same people run to the top of the hill to say "But but but we're doing serious work here!" I won't say what Thiel did was right, i'm justing saying I understand.
desdiv 9y ago
>The reason, as it was explained to me, was that in 2015 I had broken Chinese law when I failed to present myself to authorities in Beijing when I had visited and stayed at an Airbnb residence on two different trips. Unbeknownst to me at the time — and something that was not communicated by Airbnb — foreigners are required to register at a local police station, but in most cases the hotels where they stay handle this. This rule is clearly explained on the back of the immigration declaration form which every visitor must personally fill out[0]. It is, in fact, item number one. Yes, China is a totalitarian shithole. But then again some democratic countries like Japan have similar "register at local police station" rules too, so I'm very surprised that someone who spent a decade in Asia would be unaware of it. [0] http://sydney.chineseconsulate.org/eng/gdtp/P020071009492059383911.jpg http://sydney.chineseconsulate.org/eng/gdtp/P020071009492059...
- hdra 9y ago
  Yea, such rule is in place where I live too. Any guest staying over 24 hours need to report to the local authorities, both domestics or international. Many countries requires an official identification such as IC or passport upon hotel check-in as well. Although in my case its more about the neighbourhood security rather than a big-brother-watching kind of deal. The registrations aren't centralized or anything, and in most cases, are never read again unless something happened in the neighbourhood.
- volgo 9y ago
  Ya no fan of totalitarian policy, but if you try to skirt immigration laws anywhere, it won't work out well for you. Here in the U.S., I have to notify ICE everytime I change my address.], or I would be deported. Never had the courage to test them...
  - BrainInAJar 9y ago
    > Here in the U.S., I have to notify ICE everytime I change my address Yeah, like OP said, "totalitarian shithole"
    - 9y ago
Afforess 9y ago
Traveler does not follow the rules, abuses a Transit visa to cover non-transity-things, and is surprised when he is punished. He might not have been familiar with the exact rules governing travel, but it is fairly clear from his account that he was abusing the system, and aware of it. >I had been waiting in line to take advantage of the city’s 144-hour ‘transit’ visa which allows travelers with an onward flight to stay in Shanghai without needing to secure a visa before they travel. Yes, AirBnB should inform traveler's of local rules, like registering with a police station. But ignorance of the law, combined with repeated abuses shouldn't be overlooked. >Since 2015, I have used the transit visa system on six occasions Nothing to see here, folks. Follow the rules, don't abuse them.
- ioro 9y ago
  While it's generally not a good idea to try the visa on arrival option when you can't get a normal visa, the transit visa isn't just for transit as such. "To accelerate the strategy of “Development Driven by Innovation”, sanctioned by the State Council, as of January 30, various ports of entry in Shanghai [...] are to implement a 144-hour visa-exemption transit policy [...] First and foremost, the length of time for visa-exemption stay is extended considerably. With the previous 72 hours doubled, foreign passengers would have ample time to conduct short-term activities such as businesses, sightseeing, visits and exhibitions while in Shanghai." http://www.sh-immigration.gov.cn/listPageEn.aspx?lx=40&id=4421 http://www.sh-immigration.gov.cn/listPageEn.aspx?lx=40&id=44...
fatjokes 9y ago
Does sound like the border official was being overly cautious about the author's role as a journalist. That said, having traveled around the world on multiple visas (particularly in the US), I can vouch that traveling on any visa other than tourism is a pain in the ass. I'm always ready to be turned away. I usually have a large institution backing my non-tourism travels (a university or a large corporation) and their advice is consistently: don't argue, just turn back then tell our lawyers and let them deal with it.
est 9y ago
Another typical 'fuck-you' treatment from Chinese authorities. Why a fuck-you treatment? Fuck you. That's why.
- andrewjl 9y ago
  How did you get that from officials just enforcing the law on the books?
  - est 9y ago
    Which law from which book? To quote from TFA > The immigration officers explained to me that a new law that had come into effect in recent months meant I was unable to exercise the longer transit visa. My previous visits were not subject to that, I was told. The officials denied my request for details about this new law. Most of the Chinese "law" are not lawfully legislated and are selectively enforced TBH. Looks like some kind of special 规定 or 通知 targeted directly towards OP's visa.
    - khuey 9y ago
      The law, that as the top comment to the article points out, is on the back of the immigration card in English that you fill out when you enter.
      - hrowaway183 9y ago
        He is selectively choosing to read what he wants in order to trash talk as illustrate by his emotionally charged comments.
      - abc-xyz 9y ago
        I assume you're referring to this (http://www.joutrip.com/easyworks/data/gallery/china-departure-card-back.jpg http://www.joutrip.com/easyworks/data/gallery/china-departur...)? I see no mention of having to inform the police (or whoever you're supposed to inform) if you decide to spend a night at AirBNB..
mstaoru 9y ago
It is a classic example of "rule by law" which is in full effect in PRC. You're required to register within 24 hours at the "police station", no details of the said station, no opening hours or any further information is given. The process is quite slow, the queues are long, and the officials are visibly irritated every time you come and wake them up from their slumber. Then there are people flying 3-4 times per week to Hong Kong or Seoul on business, technically they are required to register every single time they enter China. Of course, nobody is doing that. So that's a #1 easy to reach tool to exercise any kind of control over foreigners.
- paulsutter 9y ago
  Your hotel does it for you
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- yorwba 9y ago
  > no details of the said station, no opening hours or any further information is given If you are staying in a hotel, you don't need to go to a police station. Otherwise, the person you are staying with should be able to help you find it. > The process is quite slow, the queues are long, and the officials are visibly irritated every time you come and wake them up from their slumber. Not my experience, but maybe I just got lucky. > Then there are people flying 3-4 times per week to Hong Kong or Seoul on business, technically they are required to register every single time they enter China. Those people presumably have some kind of permanent residence. It would be news to me if that required re-registration after each re-entry.
  - mstaoru 9y ago
    > Those people presumably have some kind of permanent residence. It would be news to me if that required re-registration after each re-entry. M-visa holders, business visa holders are required to register with each entry, which is surprisingly misaligned with the purpose the visa entails (visiting fairs, business meetings etc).
diego_moita 9y ago
I understand that the author is British and not American, but I couldn't help avoid a little bit of schadenfreude, sorry. As a Latino, every time I'd have to go in transit through US I'd face similar treatment by American customs. I hope this has improved but it's been more than 8 years I've been able to avoid any American airport. So, yep it sucks. But never mind, there are plenty of interesting countries in the world; China and the U.S. are not the only ones.
- JoelTheSuperior 9y ago
  Honestly I'd say the UK border is just as bad if not worse than that of the United States
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    As a US citizen, I flew to the UK to spend about a week with a friend from work while he showed me around central England. I had to show proof of my return flight to the states and my colleagues home address, phone number, etc.
em3rgent0rdr 9y ago
> "sign a piece of paper that was written in Mandarin" "Mandarin" is NOT a written language, but rather is a group of spoken dialects in Northern China [1]. The Chinese written language is called "hàn zì" [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandarin_Chinese https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandarin_Chinese [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_characters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_characters
- yorwba 9y ago
  If you use Hanzi to write down something spoken in Mandarin, I'd call the result "written Mandarin". Of course it might at the same time be valid as Cantonese or any of the other languages and dialects spoken in China.
  - garmaine 9y ago
    It’s not valid written form of other Chinese languages, for the record. People who speak other Chinese languages learn to read and write Mandarin. Cantonese can be written noticeably differently, in terms of character choice and word order. The same can be said of Shanghainese, Taiwanese, and other “dialects” for which there is extant literature, however small. Also, notably, “Classical Chinese” which is totally different from the modern variants listed above. It’s he same characters, sure, but combining in very different ways.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- my_first_acct 9y ago
  Disclaimer. I neither speak nor write any form of Chinese, but I've read a bit on the subject. So: Cantonese (to choose one example) is a separate language from Mandarin (or a separate "variety", if you prefer [1]), but it uses the same writing system as Mandarin. Here is a random internet forum that supports the idea that two separate Chinese languages/varieties/dialects are using a single writing system: [2]. If this is really the case, it would be perfectly reasonable to describe a piece of paper as being written in Mandarin. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varieties_of_Chinese https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varieties_of_Chinese [2] http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/phorum/read.php?1,111326,111327 http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/phorum/read.php?1,111326,11...
bluetwo 9y ago
So how did he get busted?
- abc-xyz 9y ago
  Considering it took them so little time to look up this private info, that they in my opinion shouldn't even have access to in the first place, then I think a more interesting question is whether they also have access to your chat history on weixin/qq/momo/etc, and if they can see the names of the girls you checked into a hotel with. They probably also have detailed info about whenever a foreigner visited a red light shop.. how long until that info will be used to deny foreigners entry, or land them in jail.. what a shithole..
beilabs 9y ago
Nothing to do with increased security for the 19th Congress. Nothing to do with being a journalist. Everything to do with not presenting yourself at the Chinese police station. Source: Lived in China for years, was forced to write an apology to China for not presenting myself after moving to a new city 2 months later (had a work visa); my communist party member landlord smoothed things over with local police. Obviously Jon didn't have enough guanxi.
- justinmoh 9y ago
  Congratulations, you know “guanxi”. Lmao
eddz 9y ago
The reporter comes off as a bit paranoid and slightly egotistical. Read up on the rules and follow them closely or risk facing consequences. If you aren't 100% sure, ask. Personally, I was held overnight in a cell in KIX (Osaka International Airport) because after 6 hours of back and forth interviews, I couldn't provide a convincing enough reason for working for a Japanese company (my own company) without the correct visa. This was entirely due to miscommunication but something that would have been obvious – and easily remedied – had I consulted the right people. Fortunately, I was granted conditional entry the following morning. Though despite the inconvenience, the officers and warden were extremely pleasant and very accommodating.
- abc-xyz 9y ago
  That's a terrible point of view. Who is he supposed to ask these questions that would be absolutely ridiculous to ask in any developed country? Heck, I can't think of any country in the world where staying at AirBNB would be an issue, and why shouldn't he be paranoid when they so easily could pull up info about when/where he stayed there.. Does the airport security also have a list of Chinese girls the visiting foreigners have engaged sexual relations with? How long until they start rejecting foreigners when they have slept with >50 Chinese girls?
  - hrowaway183 9y ago
    The only terrible point of view I see is yours. Claiming to be morally superior because you view the law is not to your advantage. The rules are there for a country to keep track visitors. They exist elsewhere as well.
    - abc-xyz 9y ago
      Most people rely on common sense when they travel - don't do drugs, don't steal, don't engage in physical fights, etc. And in my eyes, that's the only way. Are you saying you read the millions of laws of the country whenever you travel somewhere? Laws that may not even be available in English. Tell me, which countries have you visited throughout your life, and what does the law state regarding staying at an AirBNB residence at each of these countries? Would be great if you could provide official source as well, I mean it sounds like it's very easy for you to look it up, so I assume you don't mind. If you don't want to reveal your travel history, then you can use this list: Germany, France, Iceland, Ukraine, Vietnam, Thailand, South Korea, Cambodia, Japan.
PakG1 9y ago
With all the comments here about how this is really a silly non-story (a sentiment with which I agree), why and how is it getting upvoted so much such that it makes the front page?
- Operyl 9y ago
  Because a lot of people just upvote, and don't read the comments (or sometimes even the article). The title of the article is "interesting enough" to get an upvote.
a_c 9y ago
Off topic: today I learned that Hong Kong Airlines is owned by HNA Group [1], a china company. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_Airlines https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_Airlines
nicolas_t 9y ago
He shouldn't have argued. He should have taken the 24 hours transit they first gave him, said thanks and gone on. Arguing means that now he was denied a visa and the immigration officer is more likely going to write copious notes about it leading to him being denied subsequent visas. If you're ever in a similar situation, never argue. There's no way this will ever solve anything. In some countries, the only way to maybe solve the situation is a bit of money under the table but that's also quite risky and you need to know the customs and ins and outs of the local law very well (not to mention that your home country might consider this to be illegal). And, it usually doesn't work in major airports since there's more control.
- cocoa19 9y ago
  On the news: "Techcrunch employees bribe Chinese officials". That kind of negative PR can destroy companies.
  - nicolas_t 9y ago
    Oh should have been clearer, bribing would not be recommended in a major airport and not so much in China (where it's more a question of guanxi)
donohoe 9y ago
Just to be clear, people have similar bizarre experiences with US Immigration too.
arnvald 9y ago
I use the Shanghai visa-free transit occasionally and after going through the police station registration once, I decided to stay in hotels on my next trips. The registration process took a long time: - first I had to wait around an hour in a queue, because out of 5 available policemen only one was registering visitors - the police officer didn't speak any English, and there were 2 foreigners who didn't speak Chinese in front of me - even though I had a native Mandarin speaker with me, it took at least 30 minutes to register - the police officer kept asking me for the number of my visa, and didn't understand that I'm on visa-free transit; in the end I provided number of some stamp that I got in my passport while entering the country In summary, while it was obvious to me that I have to visit a police station unless staying in a hotel, this process is very troublesome. It definitely wasn't designed for Airbnb-era, it is assumed that if you stay at private place, you have host that will help you with the registration process.
- dis-sys 9y ago
  to be perfectly clear - airbnb is illegal in China as the pure residential complex/buildings are not allowed to have any commercial activities. should there be any airbnb in my complex, I could pick up the phone and call police, they are required to be here to handle the case in 15 minutes by law. did it two months ago, they forced the owner to shutdown the business permanently on the spot. ready to do it any time when it happens again in my complex.
oldgun 9y ago
Lucky for the author though, this is probably the only time he'll have to walk through the China bureaucracy labyrinth. Many of my friends including myself need to deal with it from time to time.
longcheng 9y ago
Sounds like he ruined his career covering China. Well deserved. Move on, and start another career covering India or whatever. Maybe China has become important enough that anyone who intends to mess her law within her border would think twice.
cooper12 9y ago
I think a majority of the commenters are missing the point of the article. We get it, you're all smart and know the rules, this guy didn't. That's his point. Instead of having the rules explained to him, he was treated horribly and denied any recourse. That's what its like facing a soulless bureaucracy. I've gone through my own share of that and it's really frustrating getting shuttled back and forth with each person passing the buck and no one to really turn to in order to resolve everything. Should he not have been skirting rules? No shit. Should we completely blame him for being ignorant? Maybe the immigration department is also at fault for not handing out handy infographics written in multiple languages to reduce friction and incidents like these. Notice for example that the author actually had tried to apply for a business visa but hit a brick wall. It's certainly not conducive to foreign journalism on Chinese topics like the burgeoning tech industry, that's for sure.
sevilo 9y ago
sorry to sound like a jerk here, while I'm aware things like this happen in China all the time and I am no fan of this type of policies and unclear communications, why does the author call out China in particular when they clearly indicated he has previously broken a Chinese law, now you may not fully agree with the law and there were unfortunate mistakes and lack of communications by his AirBNB hosts, it is still a valid law. Same thing happens at western countries to Chinese citizens every single day, and yet nobody bats and eye just because Chinese aren't as vocal and expressing their dissatisfaction. Before my family obtained Canadian citizenship (we are originally from China), every time we crossed the US border we'd get questioned like criminals for a good 40 minutes, mind I was a 13 year old child so what crime could I possibly commit while in the US? And it wasn't until recently that I found out my Irish colleagues who do not even hold permanent residency in Canada, their experience going over the US border has been smooth as silk, no question, no fingerprints, no nothing. I'm sorry I have a hard time emphasizing with the author, and I just don't know what point he's trying to get to here. That China is a shithole that discriminates western journalists? I don't know.
dis-sys 9y ago
> The reason, as it was explained to me, was that in 2015 I had broken Chinese law when I failed to present myself to authorities in Beijing when I had visited and stayed at an Airbnb residence on two different trips. Unbeknownst to me at the time — and something that was not communicated by Airbnb When you travel to a foreign country you choose to visit, you agree to follow the laws of the land. No one has the obligation to re-educate you about the local laws there, it is your responsibility to learn the laws before you go. Don't like this? Do go then.
strayamaaate 9y ago
Getting the APEC card was life changing. If you’re an Aussie or New Zealander that visits China or anywhere else regularly in Asia, I’d highly recommend checking your elegibilty. My arrival in China now goes something like; fill in the arrival form, queue at the special APEC immigration line for around 2 mins, show the card + passport, give a polite xiexie and enter. https://www.border.gov.au/Busi/visas-and-migration/travel-for-business-and-events/apec-business-travel-cards https://www.border.gov.au/Busi/visas-and-migration/travel-fo...
jackcnreturns 9y ago
Preaching to the choir, but the man openly admits violating the law and then complains about not being able to obtain a visa. I've heard countless similar stories for students and professionals trying to enter the United States from very politically friendly countries, with a select few being banned from the country altogether, based on very trivial violations of the law (we're talking job semantics here). In other words thems the rules. China's no different.

77 points by panarky 9y ago

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

I feel it’s kind of shady in the first place to use a transit visa to cover tech events. Do this in the US, it’ll be worst.

Taniwha 9y ago
The US is just weird, only country i know of that doesn't allow transit. Anywhere else you get off your plane, pass thru security and get back on your outgoing flight. The US seems too cheap to build outgoing immigration booths, and therefore doesn't have real international departure terminals like anywhere else on the planet. I means you can't transit the US without getting a visa
- redcomplier 9y ago
  I don't think the US is "too cheap" but there is a perceived higher incentive to get in and stay in in the US than many other countries. Not saying its actually true but that seems like a more rational reason than penny pinching by USCIS.
  - Taniwha 9y ago
    It causes all sorts of other problems too - because you don't pass thru immigration as you leave the US you don't get a stamp in your passport, if the system fucks up (it's the airlines who become responsible for processing your exit), the US still thinks you're there, many many people have been caught this way, suddenly found themselves in some detention centre for 'overstaying' because the INS's bookkeeping is out of whack last time they were there. ALWAYS travel to the US carrying the boarding pass from your last departure
- selectodude 9y ago
  Due to its geography, I can't think of any other country in the world where it would make sense to fly via the US. Mexico and Canada are the only two that would happen, and both have their own large international gateways.
  - cperciva 9y ago
    The USA is a very common transit country for Europe-South America and Asia-South America. It's not uncommon for travel between Europe and New Zealand or the East coast of Australia either.
    - Taniwha 9y ago
      I travel from NZ, these days I choose to go through HKG (and visit the Shenzhen markets, in China) to Europe. My normal experience of entering China is always fast and courteous, entering the US is frankly scary every time, lots of questions about what you're going to do - I show the same business APEC card at both borders (unlike China it's not a visa for the US border, the US is not a full member of APEC, but it does get me in the crew line, and identifies me as a frequent business traveller)
      - cperciva 9y ago
        You're not the only person I've heard say that they avoid the TPAC route because they want to avoid the USA. But I've heard people complain that as much as they'd prefer to avoid the USA the flight schedules are far more convenient. Have you tried the ANZ AKL-YVR connecting to ACA YVR-Europe flights? Canada is far happier about transiting passengers than the USA is. (And if you've tried it and didn't like it, I'm curious why.)
        Taniwha 9y ago
        I don't avoid the US if I need to go there, after all I lived there for 20 years, half my adult life, it's home as much as NZ (and I'm currently near the end of a NZ->US->HK->CN->HK->CN->HK->NZ trip) - getting in is the problem, the process is as I said elsewhere a bit scary, once you are there it's generally a nice place to be I haven't tried Vancouver, maybe next time - I do prefer long flights that are overnight so to Europe that means with a daytime (or two) somewhere in the middle
- SeoxyS 9y ago
  Aside from the inconvenience of clearing immigration on transit (and I can't say I've ever transited _through_ the US, despite clearing US immigration ~50), the airport experience is much nicer. International and domestic flights can leave from the same terminals, go through the same security, and use the same in-terminal facilities. You don't have to go through an outgoing passport control, so half the waiting time. I'm very happy with the system.
- refurb 9y ago
  Canada does the same thing. Even if transiting you need to be admitted into the country before getting on your connecting flight.
- bzbarsky 9y ago
  > The US seems too cheap to build outgoing immigration booths Alternately, it's none of the US government's business when people leave the country. It's always struck me as really weird that other countries make you effectively ask for permission to leave...
  - Taniwha 9y ago
    Then why do you bother people who overstay their visas? And people who don't but because you don't stamp their passports when they leave can't prove they acted legally when the INS screws up?
    - bzbarsky 9y ago
      For people on a temporary visa, I guess exit passport control can make sense. For people holding the country's passport, it just doesn't. As far as that goes, I've had my passport not be stamped plenty of times on leaving countries that _do_ have exit passport control (e.g. France), so the problem you describe is present even there.

dreamfactored 9y ago

Author says he doesn't touch political topics and then says he's covered censorship. This is the kind of thing which contributes to China being a total PITA with travel and internet

redcomplier 9y ago

I'm not sure on the merit of if this person should or should not be allowed into China but this happens to people everyday at US boarder control (especially from non-European countries) who are not even in media but doctors and lawyers. And America proclaims to be much more open than China so this isn't as strange as it seems. Something that made me think was how the author waffles between being a "journalist" and being a "blogger". Bloggers do this all the time and it's troubling. In cases where important part of a story they wrote turns out to be wrong, or invades someone privacy, they just shrug their shoulders and say "Well, im a blogger, sorry!". When they are not taken seriously, the same people run to the top of the hill to say "But but but we're doing serious work here!" I won't say what Thiel did was right, i'm justing saying I understand.

desdiv 9y ago

>The reason, as it was explained to me, was that in 2015 I had broken Chinese law when I failed to present myself to authorities in Beijing when I had visited and stayed at an Airbnb residence on two different trips. Unbeknownst to me at the time — and something that was not communicated by Airbnb — foreigners are required to register at a local police station, but in most cases the hotels where they stay handle this. This rule is clearly explained on the back of the immigration declaration form which every visitor must personally fill out[0]. It is, in fact, item number one. Yes, China is a totalitarian shithole. But then again some democratic countries like Japan have similar "register at local police station" rules too, so I'm very surprised that someone who spent a decade in Asia would be unaware of it. [0] http://sydney.chineseconsulate.org/eng/gdtp/P020071009492059383911.jpg http://sydney.chineseconsulate.org/eng/gdtp/P020071009492059...

hdra 9y ago
Yea, such rule is in place where I live too. Any guest staying over 24 hours need to report to the local authorities, both domestics or international. Many countries requires an official identification such as IC or passport upon hotel check-in as well. Although in my case its more about the neighbourhood security rather than a big-brother-watching kind of deal. The registrations aren't centralized or anything, and in most cases, are never read again unless something happened in the neighbourhood.
volgo 9y ago
Ya no fan of totalitarian policy, but if you try to skirt immigration laws anywhere, it won't work out well for you. Here in the U.S., I have to notify ICE everytime I change my address.], or I would be deported. Never had the courage to test them...
- BrainInAJar 9y ago
  > Here in the U.S., I have to notify ICE everytime I change my address Yeah, like OP said, "totalitarian shithole"
  - 9y ago

Afforess 9y ago

Traveler does not follow the rules, abuses a Transit visa to cover non-transity-things, and is surprised when he is punished. He might not have been familiar with the exact rules governing travel, but it is fairly clear from his account that he was abusing the system, and aware of it. >I had been waiting in line to take advantage of the city’s 144-hour ‘transit’ visa which allows travelers with an onward flight to stay in Shanghai without needing to secure a visa before they travel. Yes, AirBnB should inform traveler's of local rules, like registering with a police station. But ignorance of the law, combined with repeated abuses shouldn't be overlooked. >Since 2015, I have used the transit visa system on six occasions Nothing to see here, folks. Follow the rules, don't abuse them.

ioro 9y ago
While it's generally not a good idea to try the visa on arrival option when you can't get a normal visa, the transit visa isn't just for transit as such. "To accelerate the strategy of “Development Driven by Innovation”, sanctioned by the State Council, as of January 30, various ports of entry in Shanghai [...] are to implement a 144-hour visa-exemption transit policy [...] First and foremost, the length of time for visa-exemption stay is extended considerably. With the previous 72 hours doubled, foreign passengers would have ample time to conduct short-term activities such as businesses, sightseeing, visits and exhibitions while in Shanghai." http://www.sh-immigration.gov.cn/listPageEn.aspx?lx=40&id=4421 http://www.sh-immigration.gov.cn/listPageEn.aspx?lx=40&id=44...

fatjokes 9y ago

Does sound like the border official was being overly cautious about the author's role as a journalist. That said, having traveled around the world on multiple visas (particularly in the US), I can vouch that traveling on any visa other than tourism is a pain in the ass. I'm always ready to be turned away. I usually have a large institution backing my non-tourism travels (a university or a large corporation) and their advice is consistently: don't argue, just turn back then tell our lawyers and let them deal with it.

est 9y ago

Another typical 'fuck-you' treatment from Chinese authorities. Why a fuck-you treatment? Fuck you. That's why.

andrewjl 9y ago
How did you get that from officials just enforcing the law on the books?
- est 9y ago
  Which law from which book? To quote from TFA > The immigration officers explained to me that a new law that had come into effect in recent months meant I was unable to exercise the longer transit visa. My previous visits were not subject to that, I was told. The officials denied my request for details about this new law. Most of the Chinese "law" are not lawfully legislated and are selectively enforced TBH. Looks like some kind of special 规定 or 通知 targeted directly towards OP's visa.
  - khuey 9y ago
    The law, that as the top comment to the article points out, is on the back of the immigration card in English that you fill out when you enter.
    - hrowaway183 9y ago
      He is selectively choosing to read what he wants in order to trash talk as illustrate by his emotionally charged comments.
    - abc-xyz 9y ago
      I assume you're referring to this (http://www.joutrip.com/easyworks/data/gallery/china-departure-card-back.jpg http://www.joutrip.com/easyworks/data/gallery/china-departur...)? I see no mention of having to inform the police (or whoever you're supposed to inform) if you decide to spend a night at AirBNB..

mstaoru 9y ago

It is a classic example of "rule by law" which is in full effect in PRC. You're required to register within 24 hours at the "police station", no details of the said station, no opening hours or any further information is given. The process is quite slow, the queues are long, and the officials are visibly irritated every time you come and wake them up from their slumber. Then there are people flying 3-4 times per week to Hong Kong or Seoul on business, technically they are required to register every single time they enter China. Of course, nobody is doing that. So that's a #1 easy to reach tool to exercise any kind of control over foreigners.

paulsutter 9y ago
Your hotel does it for you
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
yorwba 9y ago
> no details of the said station, no opening hours or any further information is given If you are staying in a hotel, you don't need to go to a police station. Otherwise, the person you are staying with should be able to help you find it. > The process is quite slow, the queues are long, and the officials are visibly irritated every time you come and wake them up from their slumber. Not my experience, but maybe I just got lucky. > Then there are people flying 3-4 times per week to Hong Kong or Seoul on business, technically they are required to register every single time they enter China. Those people presumably have some kind of permanent residence. It would be news to me if that required re-registration after each re-entry.
- mstaoru 9y ago
  > Those people presumably have some kind of permanent residence. It would be news to me if that required re-registration after each re-entry. M-visa holders, business visa holders are required to register with each entry, which is surprisingly misaligned with the purpose the visa entails (visiting fairs, business meetings etc).

diego_moita 9y ago

I understand that the author is British and not American, but I couldn't help avoid a little bit of schadenfreude, sorry. As a Latino, every time I'd have to go in transit through US I'd face similar treatment by American customs. I hope this has improved but it's been more than 8 years I've been able to avoid any American airport. So, yep it sucks. But never mind, there are plenty of interesting countries in the world; China and the U.S. are not the only ones.

JoelTheSuperior 9y ago
Honestly I'd say the UK border is just as bad if not worse than that of the United States
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  As a US citizen, I flew to the UK to spend about a week with a friend from work while he showed me around central England. I had to show proof of my return flight to the states and my colleagues home address, phone number, etc.

em3rgent0rdr 9y ago

> "sign a piece of paper that was written in Mandarin" "Mandarin" is NOT a written language, but rather is a group of spoken dialects in Northern China [1]. The Chinese written language is called "hàn zì" [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandarin_Chinese https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandarin_Chinese [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_characters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_characters

yorwba 9y ago
If you use Hanzi to write down something spoken in Mandarin, I'd call the result "written Mandarin". Of course it might at the same time be valid as Cantonese or any of the other languages and dialects spoken in China.
- garmaine 9y ago
  It’s not valid written form of other Chinese languages, for the record. People who speak other Chinese languages learn to read and write Mandarin. Cantonese can be written noticeably differently, in terms of character choice and word order. The same can be said of Shanghainese, Taiwanese, and other “dialects” for which there is extant literature, however small. Also, notably, “Classical Chinese” which is totally different from the modern variants listed above. It’s he same characters, sure, but combining in very different ways.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
my_first_acct 9y ago
Disclaimer. I neither speak nor write any form of Chinese, but I've read a bit on the subject. So: Cantonese (to choose one example) is a separate language from Mandarin (or a separate "variety", if you prefer [1]), but it uses the same writing system as Mandarin. Here is a random internet forum that supports the idea that two separate Chinese languages/varieties/dialects are using a single writing system: [2]. If this is really the case, it would be perfectly reasonable to describe a piece of paper as being written in Mandarin. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varieties_of_Chinese https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varieties_of_Chinese [2] http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/phorum/read.php?1,111326,111327 http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/phorum/read.php?1,111326,11...

bluetwo 9y ago

So how did he get busted?

abc-xyz 9y ago
Considering it took them so little time to look up this private info, that they in my opinion shouldn't even have access to in the first place, then I think a more interesting question is whether they also have access to your chat history on weixin/qq/momo/etc, and if they can see the names of the girls you checked into a hotel with. They probably also have detailed info about whenever a foreigner visited a red light shop.. how long until that info will be used to deny foreigners entry, or land them in jail.. what a shithole..

beilabs 9y ago

Nothing to do with increased security for the 19th Congress. Nothing to do with being a journalist. Everything to do with not presenting yourself at the Chinese police station. Source: Lived in China for years, was forced to write an apology to China for not presenting myself after moving to a new city 2 months later (had a work visa); my communist party member landlord smoothed things over with local police. Obviously Jon didn't have enough guanxi.

justinmoh 9y ago
Congratulations, you know “guanxi”. Lmao

eddz 9y ago

The reporter comes off as a bit paranoid and slightly egotistical. Read up on the rules and follow them closely or risk facing consequences. If you aren't 100% sure, ask. Personally, I was held overnight in a cell in KIX (Osaka International Airport) because after 6 hours of back and forth interviews, I couldn't provide a convincing enough reason for working for a Japanese company (my own company) without the correct visa. This was entirely due to miscommunication but something that would have been obvious – and easily remedied – had I consulted the right people. Fortunately, I was granted conditional entry the following morning. Though despite the inconvenience, the officers and warden were extremely pleasant and very accommodating.

abc-xyz 9y ago
That's a terrible point of view. Who is he supposed to ask these questions that would be absolutely ridiculous to ask in any developed country? Heck, I can't think of any country in the world where staying at AirBNB would be an issue, and why shouldn't he be paranoid when they so easily could pull up info about when/where he stayed there.. Does the airport security also have a list of Chinese girls the visiting foreigners have engaged sexual relations with? How long until they start rejecting foreigners when they have slept with >50 Chinese girls?
- hrowaway183 9y ago
  The only terrible point of view I see is yours. Claiming to be morally superior because you view the law is not to your advantage. The rules are there for a country to keep track visitors. They exist elsewhere as well.
  - abc-xyz 9y ago
    Most people rely on common sense when they travel - don't do drugs, don't steal, don't engage in physical fights, etc. And in my eyes, that's the only way. Are you saying you read the millions of laws of the country whenever you travel somewhere? Laws that may not even be available in English. Tell me, which countries have you visited throughout your life, and what does the law state regarding staying at an AirBNB residence at each of these countries? Would be great if you could provide official source as well, I mean it sounds like it's very easy for you to look it up, so I assume you don't mind. If you don't want to reveal your travel history, then you can use this list: Germany, France, Iceland, Ukraine, Vietnam, Thailand, South Korea, Cambodia, Japan.

PakG1 9y ago

With all the comments here about how this is really a silly non-story (a sentiment with which I agree), why and how is it getting upvoted so much such that it makes the front page?

Operyl 9y ago
Because a lot of people just upvote, and don't read the comments (or sometimes even the article). The title of the article is "interesting enough" to get an upvote.

a_c 9y ago

Off topic: today I learned that Hong Kong Airlines is owned by HNA Group [1], a china company. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_Airlines https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_Airlines

nicolas_t 9y ago

He shouldn't have argued. He should have taken the 24 hours transit they first gave him, said thanks and gone on. Arguing means that now he was denied a visa and the immigration officer is more likely going to write copious notes about it leading to him being denied subsequent visas. If you're ever in a similar situation, never argue. There's no way this will ever solve anything. In some countries, the only way to maybe solve the situation is a bit of money under the table but that's also quite risky and you need to know the customs and ins and outs of the local law very well (not to mention that your home country might consider this to be illegal). And, it usually doesn't work in major airports since there's more control.

cocoa19 9y ago
On the news: "Techcrunch employees bribe Chinese officials". That kind of negative PR can destroy companies.
- nicolas_t 9y ago
  Oh should have been clearer, bribing would not be recommended in a major airport and not so much in China (where it's more a question of guanxi)

donohoe 9y ago

Just to be clear, people have similar bizarre experiences with US Immigration too.

arnvald 9y ago

I use the Shanghai visa-free transit occasionally and after going through the police station registration once, I decided to stay in hotels on my next trips. The registration process took a long time: - first I had to wait around an hour in a queue, because out of 5 available policemen only one was registering visitors - the police officer didn't speak any English, and there were 2 foreigners who didn't speak Chinese in front of me - even though I had a native Mandarin speaker with me, it took at least 30 minutes to register - the police officer kept asking me for the number of my visa, and didn't understand that I'm on visa-free transit; in the end I provided number of some stamp that I got in my passport while entering the country In summary, while it was obvious to me that I have to visit a police station unless staying in a hotel, this process is very troublesome. It definitely wasn't designed for Airbnb-era, it is assumed that if you stay at private place, you have host that will help you with the registration process.

dis-sys 9y ago
to be perfectly clear - airbnb is illegal in China as the pure residential complex/buildings are not allowed to have any commercial activities. should there be any airbnb in my complex, I could pick up the phone and call police, they are required to be here to handle the case in 15 minutes by law. did it two months ago, they forced the owner to shutdown the business permanently on the spot. ready to do it any time when it happens again in my complex.

oldgun 9y ago

Lucky for the author though, this is probably the only time he'll have to walk through the China bureaucracy labyrinth. Many of my friends including myself need to deal with it from time to time.

longcheng 9y ago

Sounds like he ruined his career covering China. Well deserved. Move on, and start another career covering India or whatever. Maybe China has become important enough that anyone who intends to mess her law within her border would think twice.

cooper12 9y ago

I think a majority of the commenters are missing the point of the article. We get it, you're all smart and know the rules, this guy didn't. That's his point. Instead of having the rules explained to him, he was treated horribly and denied any recourse. That's what its like facing a soulless bureaucracy. I've gone through my own share of that and it's really frustrating getting shuttled back and forth with each person passing the buck and no one to really turn to in order to resolve everything. Should he not have been skirting rules? No shit. Should we completely blame him for being ignorant? Maybe the immigration department is also at fault for not handing out handy infographics written in multiple languages to reduce friction and incidents like these. Notice for example that the author actually had tried to apply for a business visa but hit a brick wall. It's certainly not conducive to foreign journalism on Chinese topics like the burgeoning tech industry, that's for sure.

sevilo 9y ago

sorry to sound like a jerk here, while I'm aware things like this happen in China all the time and I am no fan of this type of policies and unclear communications, why does the author call out China in particular when they clearly indicated he has previously broken a Chinese law, now you may not fully agree with the law and there were unfortunate mistakes and lack of communications by his AirBNB hosts, it is still a valid law. Same thing happens at western countries to Chinese citizens every single day, and yet nobody bats and eye just because Chinese aren't as vocal and expressing their dissatisfaction. Before my family obtained Canadian citizenship (we are originally from China), every time we crossed the US border we'd get questioned like criminals for a good 40 minutes, mind I was a 13 year old child so what crime could I possibly commit while in the US? And it wasn't until recently that I found out my Irish colleagues who do not even hold permanent residency in Canada, their experience going over the US border has been smooth as silk, no question, no fingerprints, no nothing. I'm sorry I have a hard time emphasizing with the author, and I just don't know what point he's trying to get to here. That China is a shithole that discriminates western journalists? I don't know.

dis-sys 9y ago

strayamaaate 9y ago

Getting the APEC card was life changing. If you’re an Aussie or New Zealander that visits China or anywhere else regularly in Asia, I’d highly recommend checking your elegibilty. My arrival in China now goes something like; fill in the arrival form, queue at the special APEC immigration line for around 2 mins, show the card + passport, give a polite xiexie and enter. https://www.border.gov.au/Busi/visas-and-migration/travel-for-business-and-events/apec-business-travel-cards https://www.border.gov.au/Busi/visas-and-migration/travel-fo...

jackcnreturns 9y ago

Preaching to the choir, but the man openly admits violating the law and then complains about not being able to obtain a visa. I've heard countless similar stories for students and professionals trying to enter the United States from very politically friendly countries, with a select few being banned from the country altogether, based on very trivial violations of the law (we're talking job semantics here). In other words thems the rules. China's no different.