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> I wouldn't trade Linux for Windows for any sort of development work. Same. Windows has all the Linux dev tools plus a huge host of tools that Linux devs can

> I wouldn't trade Linux for Windows for any sort of development work. Same. Windows has all the Linux dev tools plus a huge host of tools that Linux devs can only dream of. The only thing I need/want Linux for is cloud deployment. If I'm deploying an Intranet server, Windows servers is what people want there. It amazes me that Linux devs speak so highly of their own tools and yet they can't even build a decent desktop system that just works, that masses of people want to actually use. And devs are people too :)

jenscow 9y ago
> that masses of people want to actually use The masses want to use Windows. To make the masses want Linux, it would have to be like Windows.
- hungerstrike 9y ago
  Not at all. Look at the Macintosh OS - it's the polar opposite of Windows and it didn't take much to gain more popular acceptance than Linux.
yndoendo 9y ago
I wouldn't trade Windows for Linux for development and everyday computing, even gaming. Microsoft and Apple both have slow and clunky UIs. I am actually more efficient on Gnome with extensions than either of the two. Only use Mac OS and Windows for their compilers and application packaging with cross-platform code bases. "Masses of, 1st world, people" are also the ones that don't understand or care about concepts such as security, privacy and true right to own. Never found the masses argument that supportive to a valid argument since group-think doesn't actually prevent problems but increases them.
- hungerstrike 9y ago
  Most developers aren't even using a Linux desktop OS though. Linux desktop distros are so bad that Apple was able to come along and eat up whatever market share it has among developers just by being stable. > Never found the masses argument that supportive... It is supportive when discussing things such as necessities. So, for instance, we can all agree that everybody needs to breathe air, right? Likewise, the masses (developers or otherwise) need stability in their OS (among many other things).
  - cannonedhamster 9y ago
    GNU/linux usage has been growing along with MacOS. If you include just kernel variants or anything other than desktop computing GNU/linux has been the market leader for a bit now comprising most supercomputers, servers, ChromeOS(variant not GNU), and Android (variant not GNU). I use Ubuntu for everyday work and have no more problems (sometimes less) than my Mac and Windows co-workers. Let me know when any real modern OS becomes "unstable". Aside from literal testing and beta releases modern platforms for Windows, MacOS, and linux based platforms are all relatively stable and show significant improvements over 10 years ago. The only reason I can see for using a Microsoft based platform over any other platform is if you're heavily invested in VBA and macros. If you're not then there is no reason a company cannot use a GNU/linux based platform such as Ubuntu. LibreOffice, Google Apps, Zoho, Collabora/Nextcloud all provide platform agnostic tools that allow for easy use no matter what you're using. You're working from a very old mindset of operating systems.
    - hungerstrike 9y ago
      > GNU/linux usage has been growing along with MacOS. That's a euphoric way of saying that Linux desktop systems (the actual thing we're discussing) has nowhere near the same market share, but it's growing I swear!. And of course Linux fanatics can't help but mention how widely the kernel is used even if it's completely off-topic. Should we mention how widely Intel ME/Minix is installed too just for kicks? > I use Ubuntu for everyday work and have no more problems... That's cool. Some people also bike to work instead of driving a car and they don't have any problems with that either. > Let me know when any real modern OS becomes "unstable". Right now. Linux doesn't even have an ABI for drivers and just this year I think Linus promised a whole 6 years of stable interfaces for drivers. Furthermore, historically and currently, next to nobody makes serious commercial software for Linux desktop systems because of the wildly unstable environment. Look at any discussion thread comparing Linux to Windows or Mac and you'll find plenty of people complaining about Linux drivers, lack of software, unstable/unfit desktop UIs and general fragmentation. > The only reason I can see for using a Microsoft based platform over any other platform is if you're heavily invested in VBA and macros... Oh, I thought your opinion would have been completely different after reading the first couple of paragraphs. Let me guess, you also think that command line apps are better than GUIs right? Oh and you think that configuring your system by opening up text files and typing in free-form text is better than using a GUI too. Obviously the city of Munich and just about every other city and business on earth disagrees with you because none of them want Linux on their desks. > You're working from a very old mindset of operating systems. Nope. Your ideas about the state of the Linux desktop are altogether fanciful.

jenscow 9y ago

> that masses of people want to actually use The masses want to use Windows. To make the masses want Linux, it would have to be like Windows.

hungerstrike 9y ago
Not at all. Look at the Macintosh OS - it's the polar opposite of Windows and it didn't take much to gain more popular acceptance than Linux.

yndoendo 9y ago

I wouldn't trade Windows for Linux for development and everyday computing, even gaming. Microsoft and Apple both have slow and clunky UIs. I am actually more efficient on Gnome with extensions than either of the two. Only use Mac OS and Windows for their compilers and application packaging with cross-platform code bases. "Masses of, 1st world, people" are also the ones that don't understand or care about concepts such as security, privacy and true right to own. Never found the masses argument that supportive to a valid argument since group-think doesn't actually prevent problems but increases them.

hungerstrike 9y ago
Most developers aren't even using a Linux desktop OS though. Linux desktop distros are so bad that Apple was able to come along and eat up whatever market share it has among developers just by being stable. > Never found the masses argument that supportive... It is supportive when discussing things such as necessities. So, for instance, we can all agree that everybody needs to breathe air, right? Likewise, the masses (developers or otherwise) need stability in their OS (among many other things).
- cannonedhamster 9y ago
  GNU/linux usage has been growing along with MacOS. If you include just kernel variants or anything other than desktop computing GNU/linux has been the market leader for a bit now comprising most supercomputers, servers, ChromeOS(variant not GNU), and Android (variant not GNU). I use Ubuntu for everyday work and have no more problems (sometimes less) than my Mac and Windows co-workers. Let me know when any real modern OS becomes "unstable". Aside from literal testing and beta releases modern platforms for Windows, MacOS, and linux based platforms are all relatively stable and show significant improvements over 10 years ago. The only reason I can see for using a Microsoft based platform over any other platform is if you're heavily invested in VBA and macros. If you're not then there is no reason a company cannot use a GNU/linux based platform such as Ubuntu. LibreOffice, Google Apps, Zoho, Collabora/Nextcloud all provide platform agnostic tools that allow for easy use no matter what you're using. You're working from a very old mindset of operating systems.
  - hungerstrike 9y ago
    > GNU/linux usage has been growing along with MacOS. That's a euphoric way of saying that Linux desktop systems (the actual thing we're discussing) has nowhere near the same market share, but it's growing I swear!. And of course Linux fanatics can't help but mention how widely the kernel is used even if it's completely off-topic. Should we mention how widely Intel ME/Minix is installed too just for kicks? > I use Ubuntu for everyday work and have no more problems... That's cool. Some people also bike to work instead of driving a car and they don't have any problems with that either. > Let me know when any real modern OS becomes "unstable". Right now. Linux doesn't even have an ABI for drivers and just this year I think Linus promised a whole 6 years of stable interfaces for drivers. Furthermore, historically and currently, next to nobody makes serious commercial software for Linux desktop systems because of the wildly unstable environment. Look at any discussion thread comparing Linux to Windows or Mac and you'll find plenty of people complaining about Linux drivers, lack of software, unstable/unfit desktop UIs and general fragmentation. > The only reason I can see for using a Microsoft based platform over any other platform is if you're heavily invested in VBA and macros... Oh, I thought your opinion would have been completely different after reading the first couple of paragraphs. Let me guess, you also think that command line apps are better than GUIs right? Oh and you think that configuring your system by opening up text files and typing in free-form text is better than using a GUI too. Obviously the city of Munich and just about every other city and business on earth disagrees with you because none of them want Linux on their desks. > You're working from a very old mindset of operating systems. Nope. Your ideas about the state of the Linux desktop are altogether fanciful.