7 ms·

Could LSD be the right prescription for the terminally ill?

64 points by adam 9y ago

Nursie 9y ago
The idea that drugs and drug experiences are so bad that they should be denied to all, and even the dieing should only be bludgeoned out of their pain with opiates, is one I find fairly disgusting. There is a cornucopia of mental states to be experienced. If LSD and/or psilocybin offer lasting relief from the terror and darkness of imminent death, they should be embraced openly. As should any and all other drugs that may ease someone's passing.
mindslight 9y ago
Maybe rather than prescribing xor proscribing, the answer is to simply stop stymieing individuals from figuring out what works for themselves.
Overtonwindow 9y ago
I think using hallucinogens and other drugs is absolutely what we should be giving to those who are terminally ill. Doping them all up so they just sit around drooling is inhumane. This may sound way out of the bounds of normalcy, but I think cannabis should be provided to everyone in a nursing home. Dying, and waiting to die, for all things considered, seem like a very painful, depressing, stressful process. Anything that can be done to let terminally ill patients float off into the afterlife in peace and without pain is a good thing, and anything we can do to improve end of life care we should consider.
- cc81 9y ago
  But doping them up might be the only answer to the pain. LSD is not a day to day drug than can help with pain or feeling ill from chemo.
- maxxxxx 9y ago
  Having watched somebody die miserably over weeks in a hospital hooked up to machines and being treated like an object I think being drugged up is vastly preferable. There was almost no warmth or comfort in the process. I remember watching a Canadian movie about a father dieing from cancer and the children buying him heroine. In the end they all got together and he overdosed and died in peace. Seems like a good way to go out out. Obviously I don't know how I would really respond in that situation.
  - figurehe4d 9y ago
    That's basically what hospice care is. Give patients opiates until their heart stops.
benevol 9y ago
The key is this: Substances such as LSD, psilocybin or DMT can put the brain into a special mode of functioning which can in turn enable capacities which can be described as "psychic" in certain circumstances (this is also linked to the "mystical experience" which is often mentioned by users). These experiences make people aware of the fact that there is a whole invisible world (or spiritual dimension) which has nothing to do with our material experience. This understanding leads to a much higher degree of freedom for the person experiencing all of this. For obvious reasons, such a person can be much less manipulated by negative emotions such as greed, hatred and fear. It leads to less war and less consumerism. But both of these components make up big parts of the US economy, which represents a small percentage of very wealthy people who are afraid of losing their dominance. This is probably the most important reason why these substances which have so much potential have been suppressed for so long, without real and valid justification.
- trentnix 9y ago
  It also makes you prone to believe in absurd conspiracies, it appears.
  - CPLX 9y ago
    I mean I don't buy into the whole other mystical world spiritual plane nonsense myself, but can you think of a more compelling explanation for why psychedelic drugs are illegal?
    - dqpb 9y ago
      Because they impair your ability to function and can lead to long term psychological problems?
      - tcbawo 9y ago
        To play devil's advocate, they clearly have potential for therapeutic use in a medical setting. It's a shame there are so many hurdles in the way.
Dowwie 9y ago
Imagine a world where a terminally ill patient has a dedicated medical practitioner. Now imagine that practitioner is also a psychedelic shaman who guides a patient through twelve hours of intense LSD-induced hallucinations. Now imagine that you are the owner of this bridge I am selling, for a very reasonable price.
sova 9y ago
Not to forget the wonderful contributions to the field by Joan Halifax and Stanislav Grof!
- yeahforsureman 9y ago
  Stanislav Grof, really? The crank psychoanalyst whose therapeutic ideas are based on summoning and coming to terms with false memories of birth and whatnot?
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
plantel 9y ago
I've been microdosing and taking full trips upwards of 300ug over the last year and turned my life around. I've been able to conquer my inner demons , learn to love development again and break ground on personal motivation and roadblocks and problem solving. I was prescribed vyvanse and tried modafinil for a while and found they harmed more than helped in the long run , based all around getting me to enjoy mundane tasks rather than chase the excitement of challenges that acid gives me
- oligopoly 9y ago
  > I was prescribed vyvanse and found they harmed more than helped in the long run Care to elaborate? I was prescribed Ritalin and wondering about the long-term effects. Peter Breggin[0] who is a known critic of psychiatric meds quoted some research going as far to suggest them lowering IQ in long-term use. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Breggin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Breggin
  - figurehe4d 9y ago
    Vyvanse, to put simply, causes your liver to synthesize dextroamohetamine (75% of adderalls active ingredients). Its effects on your body are similar to adderall. Levoamphetamine, 25% of adderalls active ingredients (what causes adderalls body high), supposedly has neurotoxic effects on the brain, lending some credence to that author's claim. Basically these amphetamines cause your brain to eject dopamine. This is contrasted with Ritalin/concerta/cocaine which act as dopamine reuptake inhibitors, preventing your brain from absorbing the dopamine thereby casing it to over produce in order compensate. Based on what I've read reuptake inhibitors aren't neurotoxic, and can actually guard against some of the neurotoxicity of adderall/levoamphetmine.
    - pault 9y ago
      Just to clarify, you're saying that Vyvanse doesn't have the potentially neurotoxic effects that Adderall has? My doctor prescribed me Vyvanse and anecdotally it seems to be the preferred treatment for ADD these days.
- deleted 9y ago
Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
It's worth noting that there is a risk here. LSD can put you in a mental state prime for significant changes to your psyche - in either direction. It's vitally important that the right scenario be crafted or the trip could spiral into a tramautic experience, especially if they have a terminal illness to dwell on during the trip. LSD is an amazing drug with potential to help people, but let's not forget that it can be dangerous and administer it carefully.
- StavrosK 9y ago
  > let's not forget that it can be dangerous I don't agree that it's that dangerous for the average person to take, but I agree that, for someone who is already dealing with a very stressful scenario (like a terminal patient), lots of caution is warranted.
- was_boring 9y ago
  I think it also depends on the dose. I've heard microdosing is very different.
  - cc81 9y ago
    Microdosing is just under the threshold so my guess is that it actually does not have any effect at all and instead just a powerful placebo feeling. That or that people are not microdosing at all so they are getting enough to start tripping lightly, experiencing some energy and euphoria.
    - sova 9y ago
      Effects before they are epi-apparent. I think the effects are definitely measurable on a neurotransmitter level, but not so much on a sensory level.
- brownmenace 9y ago
  There are doses between microdose and tripping balls. The patients can begin at a small dosage, and slowly ramp up as they become more familiar with the drug.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
cc81 9y ago
I don't get why he compares opiates and LSD as LSD would not replace the opiates here at all.
rootw0rm 9y ago
LSD is the right prescription for life.
GeekyBear 9y ago
There is existing clinical evidence that Psilocybin is helpful for treating anxiety and depression in cancer patients. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/12/the-life-changing-magic-of-mushrooms/509246/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/12/the-life-...
- trhway 9y ago
  and according to the government who keeps it on the Schedule I, there is basically nothing bad about Psilocybin : https://www.justice.gov/archive/ndic/pubs6/6038/#risks https://www.justice.gov/archive/ndic/pubs6/6038/#risks Compare the "risks" listed there with side effects of a typical OTC medicine, not even mentioning any serious medical drug. One can only wonder why it is on the Schedule I. Is there something bad about Psilocybin what government hides from us? :)
  - GeekyBear 9y ago
    The annual Global Drug Survey has repeatedly found mushrooms containing Psilocybin to be much, much safer than alcohol. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/may/23/study-hallucinogenic-mushrooms-safest-recreational-drug-lsd https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/may/23/study-halluc...

64 points by adam 9y ago

The idea that drugs and drug experiences are so bad that they should be denied to all, and even the dieing should only be bludgeoned out of their pain with opiates, is one I find fairly disgusting. There is a cornucopia of mental states to be experienced. If LSD and/or psilocybin offer lasting relief from the terror and darkness of imminent death, they should be embraced openly. As should any and all other drugs that may ease someone's passing.

mindslight 9y ago

Maybe rather than prescribing xor proscribing, the answer is to simply stop stymieing individuals from figuring out what works for themselves.

Overtonwindow 9y ago

I think using hallucinogens and other drugs is absolutely what we should be giving to those who are terminally ill. Doping them all up so they just sit around drooling is inhumane. This may sound way out of the bounds of normalcy, but I think cannabis should be provided to everyone in a nursing home. Dying, and waiting to die, for all things considered, seem like a very painful, depressing, stressful process. Anything that can be done to let terminally ill patients float off into the afterlife in peace and without pain is a good thing, and anything we can do to improve end of life care we should consider.

cc81 9y ago
But doping them up might be the only answer to the pain. LSD is not a day to day drug than can help with pain or feeling ill from chemo.
maxxxxx 9y ago
Having watched somebody die miserably over weeks in a hospital hooked up to machines and being treated like an object I think being drugged up is vastly preferable. There was almost no warmth or comfort in the process. I remember watching a Canadian movie about a father dieing from cancer and the children buying him heroine. In the end they all got together and he overdosed and died in peace. Seems like a good way to go out out. Obviously I don't know how I would really respond in that situation.
- figurehe4d 9y ago
  That's basically what hospice care is. Give patients opiates until their heart stops.

benevol 9y ago

The key is this: Substances such as LSD, psilocybin or DMT can put the brain into a special mode of functioning which can in turn enable capacities which can be described as "psychic" in certain circumstances (this is also linked to the "mystical experience" which is often mentioned by users). These experiences make people aware of the fact that there is a whole invisible world (or spiritual dimension) which has nothing to do with our material experience. This understanding leads to a much higher degree of freedom for the person experiencing all of this. For obvious reasons, such a person can be much less manipulated by negative emotions such as greed, hatred and fear. It leads to less war and less consumerism. But both of these components make up big parts of the US economy, which represents a small percentage of very wealthy people who are afraid of losing their dominance. This is probably the most important reason why these substances which have so much potential have been suppressed for so long, without real and valid justification.

trentnix 9y ago
It also makes you prone to believe in absurd conspiracies, it appears.
- CPLX 9y ago
  I mean I don't buy into the whole other mystical world spiritual plane nonsense myself, but can you think of a more compelling explanation for why psychedelic drugs are illegal?
  - dqpb 9y ago
    Because they impair your ability to function and can lead to long term psychological problems?
    - tcbawo 9y ago
      To play devil's advocate, they clearly have potential for therapeutic use in a medical setting. It's a shame there are so many hurdles in the way.

Dowwie 9y ago

Imagine a world where a terminally ill patient has a dedicated medical practitioner. Now imagine that practitioner is also a psychedelic shaman who guides a patient through twelve hours of intense LSD-induced hallucinations. Now imagine that you are the owner of this bridge I am selling, for a very reasonable price.

sova 9y ago

Not to forget the wonderful contributions to the field by Joan Halifax and Stanislav Grof!

yeahforsureman 9y ago
Stanislav Grof, really? The crank psychoanalyst whose therapeutic ideas are based on summoning and coming to terms with false memories of birth and whatnot?

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

plantel 9y ago

I've been microdosing and taking full trips upwards of 300ug over the last year and turned my life around. I've been able to conquer my inner demons , learn to love development again and break ground on personal motivation and roadblocks and problem solving. I was prescribed vyvanse and tried modafinil for a while and found they harmed more than helped in the long run , based all around getting me to enjoy mundane tasks rather than chase the excitement of challenges that acid gives me

oligopoly 9y ago
> I was prescribed vyvanse and found they harmed more than helped in the long run Care to elaborate? I was prescribed Ritalin and wondering about the long-term effects. Peter Breggin[0] who is a known critic of psychiatric meds quoted some research going as far to suggest them lowering IQ in long-term use. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Breggin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Breggin
- figurehe4d 9y ago
  Vyvanse, to put simply, causes your liver to synthesize dextroamohetamine (75% of adderalls active ingredients). Its effects on your body are similar to adderall. Levoamphetamine, 25% of adderalls active ingredients (what causes adderalls body high), supposedly has neurotoxic effects on the brain, lending some credence to that author's claim. Basically these amphetamines cause your brain to eject dopamine. This is contrasted with Ritalin/concerta/cocaine which act as dopamine reuptake inhibitors, preventing your brain from absorbing the dopamine thereby casing it to over produce in order compensate. Based on what I've read reuptake inhibitors aren't neurotoxic, and can actually guard against some of the neurotoxicity of adderall/levoamphetmine.
  - pault 9y ago
    Just to clarify, you're saying that Vyvanse doesn't have the potentially neurotoxic effects that Adderall has? My doctor prescribed me Vyvanse and anecdotally it seems to be the preferred treatment for ADD these days.
deleted 9y ago

Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago

It's worth noting that there is a risk here. LSD can put you in a mental state prime for significant changes to your psyche - in either direction. It's vitally important that the right scenario be crafted or the trip could spiral into a tramautic experience, especially if they have a terminal illness to dwell on during the trip. LSD is an amazing drug with potential to help people, but let's not forget that it can be dangerous and administer it carefully.

StavrosK 9y ago
> let's not forget that it can be dangerous I don't agree that it's that dangerous for the average person to take, but I agree that, for someone who is already dealing with a very stressful scenario (like a terminal patient), lots of caution is warranted.
was_boring 9y ago
I think it also depends on the dose. I've heard microdosing is very different.
- cc81 9y ago
  Microdosing is just under the threshold so my guess is that it actually does not have any effect at all and instead just a powerful placebo feeling. That or that people are not microdosing at all so they are getting enough to start tripping lightly, experiencing some energy and euphoria.
  - sova 9y ago
    Effects before they are epi-apparent. I think the effects are definitely measurable on a neurotransmitter level, but not so much on a sensory level.
brownmenace 9y ago
There are doses between microdose and tripping balls. The patients can begin at a small dosage, and slowly ramp up as they become more familiar with the drug.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

cc81 9y ago

I don't get why he compares opiates and LSD as LSD would not replace the opiates here at all.

rootw0rm 9y ago

LSD is the right prescription for life.

GeekyBear 9y ago

There is existing clinical evidence that Psilocybin is helpful for treating anxiety and depression in cancer patients. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/12/the-life-changing-magic-of-mushrooms/509246/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/12/the-life-...

trhway 9y ago
and according to the government who keeps it on the Schedule I, there is basically nothing bad about Psilocybin : https://www.justice.gov/archive/ndic/pubs6/6038/#risks https://www.justice.gov/archive/ndic/pubs6/6038/#risks Compare the "risks" listed there with side effects of a typical OTC medicine, not even mentioning any serious medical drug. One can only wonder why it is on the Schedule I. Is there something bad about Psilocybin what government hides from us? :)
- GeekyBear 9y ago
  The annual Global Drug Survey has repeatedly found mushrooms containing Psilocybin to be much, much safer than alcohol. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/may/23/study-hallucinogenic-mushrooms-safest-recreational-drug-lsd https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/may/23/study-halluc...