6 ms·

Office 365 is affordable, well-supported, easy to use, and updated frequently. It does what businesses and governments want. Their formats are well-supported.

Office 365 is affordable, well-supported, easy to use, and updated frequently. It does what businesses and governments want. Their formats are well-supported. The software is also very stable and very mature. Other than ideology, there are few reasons not to use Office 365.

justinjlynn 9y ago
The real question of interest here is: how much do they pay people to make favourable posts online?
- dkural 9y ago
  Do you have a response to the argument being put forth as opposed to making unsubstantiated ad hominem attacks?
  - justinjlynn 9y ago
    I wasn't aware any cogent argument was being put forward. "Does what businesses and governments want" is so broad as to read like advertising copy. I mean this is about as blatant as it gets. Clearly the only reason to use open source software is because one is an idealogue... please.
    - praneshp 9y ago
      > Clearly the only reason to use open source software is because one is an idealogue... please. If you taken a few more seconds to read, that is not what your parent comment said when they wrote "Other than ideology, there are few reasons not to use Office 365."
- dang 9y ago
  It breaks the site guidelines to insinuate astroturfing or shillage unless you have specific evidence, so would you please not do that? Such things no doubt exist, but internet users are overwhelmingly more likely to just invoke them ex nihilo when someone happens to post a view they don't like. This is toxic to discussion, so we don't allow it. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - justinjlynn 9y ago
    Fair enough, my apologies.
adrianN 9y ago
One reason not to use it is because it makes German government dependent on a foreign company. Another reason not to use it is because it's a cloud product and shouldn't be used to store private data about German citizens. Another reason not to use it is because the FOSS alternatives are free.
- godzillabrennus 9y ago
  There is still real cost to using FOSS software. Training employees. Maintaining the environment by addressing bugs. Securing the environment. Plus compatibility with proprietary formats isn’t 100%. I’d still choose FOSS for many kinds of environments but it’s not free.
  - justinjlynn 9y ago
    All of those enumerated costs apply equally to proprietary software as well.
    - godzillabrennus 9y ago
      There is a reason Microsoft practically gives away their software to schools. They have an amazing ecosystem.
      - justinjlynn 9y ago
        Well, they certainly have a number of products, but I fail to see how their giving away licences has anything to do with reducing those ongoing operational costs? Not only that then, "first one's free" certainly applies: I would hate to see the renewal costs they charge!
        thaumasiotes 9y ago
        > I fail to see how their giving away licences has anything to do with reducing those ongoing operational costs? Not only that then, "first one's free" certainly applies: I would hate to see the renewal costs they charge! Your parent comment is referring to the following model: 1. Microsoft provides free or nearly-free licenses to schools. They don't charge the schools for software now, and they won't charge the schools for software later, because that would defeat the purpose of giving the software away. Renewal fees are not an issue anyone sane would worry about. 2. Incoming government workers already know how to use Microsoft software, because that's what they used at school. They complain if they're supposed to use something else.
madez 9y ago
Can it be used completely offline and off-the-grid while still supporting work-flows between peers? Can the documents created easily be shared with peers not using it? Is one tied to other products due to this product, like OS, certain hardware and other things? Who has authorative power over the software and it's updates?
m_mueller 9y ago
Here's my main problem with MS productivity software: Quality degradation when including standard formats like png, pdf (not sure about svg these days). With Apple desktop software you can pretty much copy & paste from A to B and never worry about the result looking bad. With MS I have to follow very specific workflows to get an acceptable result. I don't understand why this is still such a hassle after 25+ years of development. I'd love to have some of Office's advanced features (collaboration, referencing, most excel features, powerpoint's line and endpoint snapping), but with Pages/Keynote/Number's GUI and layouting engine.
- godzillabrennus 9y ago
  No need to innovate when you dominate.
eadmund 9y ago
> Other than ideology, there are few reasons not to use Office 365. Isn't that a sufficient reason? Other than ideology, there are few reasons not to kill someone and take his money, if there's no chance of being caught. Proprietary software is immoral; that is IMHO a sufficient reason to forego it.
- praneshp 9y ago
  > Proprietary software is immoral; that is IMHO a sufficient reason to forego it. Nonsense.
lisper 9y ago
There is one very good non-ideological reason not to use it: one should never ever use a sole-source vendor for a mission critical product on a subscription basis because if that vendor decides to raise their price, you have no option but to pay.
- brogrammernot 9y ago
  This same logic can be applied to FOSS software. It could stop being supported at any moment. There’s also zero financial incentive to fix any critical bugs that arise. As for non-subscription based software, you are simply delaying a pricing increase as the newer versions are needed eventually as new versions contain key features.
  - lisper 9y ago
    No. With FOSS you always have the option of hiring someone to fix bugs and make enhancements, or form a coalition of customers to hire people and spread the cost, or doing the work yourself. Moreover, the market for providers willing to do that work will be competitive, which will tend to drive costs down. WRT key features: I'm still using Microsoft Office 2008. In ten years I have never once needed a feature it didn't have.
  - adrianN 9y ago
    Imagine a world where all German city governments use FOSS software. Every tax Euro spent on adding critical features automatically benefits hundreds of municipalities. Some of those features might even benefit the general public that can also use the same free office software. Compare this to money spent on licensing fee going straight to Microsoft.
    - pjmlp 9y ago
      Given politicians way of life, I doubt it very much. It would go to some supa-duppa FOSS consulting company, or to yet another Berlin airport.
BrandoElFollito 9y ago
I agree. Now, the data is fully managed by a US company and may be peeked at. Or not. This is a reasonable concern when you put you sensitive information over there.
- nu5500 9y ago
  It'll most likely be using the German regulated version of Azure/Office 365: https://support.office.com/en-us/article/Learn-about-Office-365-Germany-8a5a4bbc-667a-4cac-8769-d8ac9015db4c?ui=en-US&rs=en-US&ad=US https://support.office.com/en-us/article/Learn-about-Office-... Similar to what China does.

justinjlynn 9y ago

The real question of interest here is: how much do they pay people to make favourable posts online?

dkural 9y ago
Do you have a response to the argument being put forth as opposed to making unsubstantiated ad hominem attacks?
- justinjlynn 9y ago
  I wasn't aware any cogent argument was being put forward. "Does what businesses and governments want" is so broad as to read like advertising copy. I mean this is about as blatant as it gets. Clearly the only reason to use open source software is because one is an idealogue... please.
  - praneshp 9y ago
    > Clearly the only reason to use open source software is because one is an idealogue... please. If you taken a few more seconds to read, that is not what your parent comment said when they wrote "Other than ideology, there are few reasons not to use Office 365."
dang 9y ago
It breaks the site guidelines to insinuate astroturfing or shillage unless you have specific evidence, so would you please not do that? Such things no doubt exist, but internet users are overwhelmingly more likely to just invoke them ex nihilo when someone happens to post a view they don't like. This is toxic to discussion, so we don't allow it. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- justinjlynn 9y ago
  Fair enough, my apologies.

adrianN 9y ago

One reason not to use it is because it makes German government dependent on a foreign company. Another reason not to use it is because it's a cloud product and shouldn't be used to store private data about German citizens. Another reason not to use it is because the FOSS alternatives are free.

godzillabrennus 9y ago
There is still real cost to using FOSS software. Training employees. Maintaining the environment by addressing bugs. Securing the environment. Plus compatibility with proprietary formats isn’t 100%. I’d still choose FOSS for many kinds of environments but it’s not free.
- justinjlynn 9y ago
  All of those enumerated costs apply equally to proprietary software as well.
  - godzillabrennus 9y ago
    There is a reason Microsoft practically gives away their software to schools. They have an amazing ecosystem.
    - justinjlynn 9y ago
      Well, they certainly have a number of products, but I fail to see how their giving away licences has anything to do with reducing those ongoing operational costs? Not only that then, "first one's free" certainly applies: I would hate to see the renewal costs they charge!
      - thaumasiotes 9y ago
        > I fail to see how their giving away licences has anything to do with reducing those ongoing operational costs? Not only that then, "first one's free" certainly applies: I would hate to see the renewal costs they charge! Your parent comment is referring to the following model: 1. Microsoft provides free or nearly-free licenses to schools. They don't charge the schools for software now, and they won't charge the schools for software later, because that would defeat the purpose of giving the software away. Renewal fees are not an issue anyone sane would worry about. 2. Incoming government workers already know how to use Microsoft software, because that's what they used at school. They complain if they're supposed to use something else.

madez 9y ago

Can it be used completely offline and off-the-grid while still supporting work-flows between peers? Can the documents created easily be shared with peers not using it? Is one tied to other products due to this product, like OS, certain hardware and other things? Who has authorative power over the software and it's updates?

m_mueller 9y ago

Here's my main problem with MS productivity software: Quality degradation when including standard formats like png, pdf (not sure about svg these days). With Apple desktop software you can pretty much copy & paste from A to B and never worry about the result looking bad. With MS I have to follow very specific workflows to get an acceptable result. I don't understand why this is still such a hassle after 25+ years of development. I'd love to have some of Office's advanced features (collaboration, referencing, most excel features, powerpoint's line and endpoint snapping), but with Pages/Keynote/Number's GUI and layouting engine.

godzillabrennus 9y ago
No need to innovate when you dominate.

eadmund 9y ago

> Other than ideology, there are few reasons not to use Office 365. Isn't that a sufficient reason? Other than ideology, there are few reasons not to kill someone and take his money, if there's no chance of being caught. Proprietary software is immoral; that is IMHO a sufficient reason to forego it.

praneshp 9y ago
> Proprietary software is immoral; that is IMHO a sufficient reason to forego it. Nonsense.

lisper 9y ago

There is one very good non-ideological reason not to use it: one should never ever use a sole-source vendor for a mission critical product on a subscription basis because if that vendor decides to raise their price, you have no option but to pay.

brogrammernot 9y ago
This same logic can be applied to FOSS software. It could stop being supported at any moment. There’s also zero financial incentive to fix any critical bugs that arise. As for non-subscription based software, you are simply delaying a pricing increase as the newer versions are needed eventually as new versions contain key features.
- lisper 9y ago
  No. With FOSS you always have the option of hiring someone to fix bugs and make enhancements, or form a coalition of customers to hire people and spread the cost, or doing the work yourself. Moreover, the market for providers willing to do that work will be competitive, which will tend to drive costs down. WRT key features: I'm still using Microsoft Office 2008. In ten years I have never once needed a feature it didn't have.
- adrianN 9y ago
  Imagine a world where all German city governments use FOSS software. Every tax Euro spent on adding critical features automatically benefits hundreds of municipalities. Some of those features might even benefit the general public that can also use the same free office software. Compare this to money spent on licensing fee going straight to Microsoft.
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    Given politicians way of life, I doubt it very much. It would go to some supa-duppa FOSS consulting company, or to yet another Berlin airport.

BrandoElFollito 9y ago

I agree. Now, the data is fully managed by a US company and may be peeked at. Or not. This is a reasonable concern when you put you sensitive information over there.

nu5500 9y ago
It'll most likely be using the German regulated version of Azure/Office 365: https://support.office.com/en-us/article/Learn-about-Office-365-Germany-8a5a4bbc-667a-4cac-8769-d8ac9015db4c?ui=en-US&rs=en-US&ad=US https://support.office.com/en-us/article/Learn-about-Office-... Similar to what China does.