6 ms·

Enterprise only gives you 100 miles per day, which is very generous in an urban area but if you're visiting out west where the "local" airport is 40 miles away

by VLM 9y ago

Enterprise only gives you 100 miles per day, which is very generous in an urban area but if you're visiting out west where the "local" airport is 40 miles away from town... To make the numbers easy to do in your head, a thirty K car sounds average-ish and lasts 150 K miles, thats a fifth of a buck per mile depreciation for that miracle car that never needs oil changes or any other form of maintenance. When I was younger I had a sportier car that used ultra high performance tires that cost me a kilobuck per set and only lasted something like 20K miles, which is a nickel per mile just for tires. Of course most cars tires last longer but prices only increase with inflation such that some SUV and truck drivers are likely paying more than five cents per mile just for tires. dollars per gallon divided by miles per gallon gives you dollars per mile, so 2.5 or so divided by 25 or so (to make the math easy to do in head) implies at least 10 cents per mile just in gas costs. Of course many people spend a lot of the life of their car paying more than $2.50/gal for gas and 25 MPG is a daydream for most cars and most drivers on most roads. My car insurance is very interested in miles driven per year and if I drove my band limit (which I don't) I'd be paying about ten cents per mile for insurance. I'm thinking 20 cents for car depreciation, 5 cents for tires, 10 cents for gas, 10 cents for insurance, another 5 cents for misc maintenance costs, the IRS 50 cent estimate isn't bad.

nkurz 9y ago
I'm thinking 20 cents for car depreciation, 5 cents for tires, 10 cents for gas, 10 cents for insurance, another 5 cents for misc maintenance costs, the IRS 50 cent estimate isn't bad. These numbers are very difficult to align with the prices advertised by the rental companies for Uber and Lyft drivers, which are usually claimed to be about $200 per week: https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/loans/5-ways-car-uber-lyft/ https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/loans/5-ways-car-uber-lyft/ For example, Hertz's site says they charge a base of $214 a week for Uber drivers, including unlimited mileage and insurance, but not including taxes, fees or fuel: https://www.hertz.com/rentacar/misc/index.jsp?targetPage=UberFAQs.jsp https://www.hertz.com/rentacar/misc/index.jsp?targetPage=Ube... While it's possible that the rental companies are losing money on these rentals or that the undisclosed fees are much more than the rental cost, I think the more likely explanation is that your estimate is inaccurate. Do you have another explanation for the discrepancy?
- ams6110 9y ago
  Hertz buys cars for less than you can because they buy thousands per year. Hertz also maintains cars for less because they employ their mechanics and probably pay wholesale for common parts, while you pay $40/hr or more for labor and double retail for parts when you take you car to a shop for service.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- SilasX 9y ago
  >These numbers are very difficult to align with the prices advertised by the rental companies for Uber and Lyft drivers, which are usually claimed to be about $200 per week: That $200/week turned out to be severely undercharging. According to this article [1], it allowed the driver to put a lot of miles on the car without paying its full depreciation: >>"The Xchange Leasing division had been estimating modest losses of around $500 per auto on average, these people said. But managers recently informed Uber executives that the losses were actually about $9,000 per car — about half the sticker price of a typical leased vehicle." >>The "unlimited miles" allowed drivers to work long days and return vehicles with way too many miles, which kills the resale value. So, Uber is shutting it down. Side note: a lot of people were getting this wrong and screaming bloody murder about how exploitative the leases were. The problem was, they were comparing it to the really-long-term lease you might get as a substitute for buying a car, in which you're still responsible for maintenance, not the kind of lease that covers high usage and major maintenance over unlimited miles. [1] https://wolfstreet.com/2017/08/09/uber-gets-run-over-by-its-own-subprime-auto-leases/ https://wolfstreet.com/2017/08/09/uber-gets-run-over-by-its-...
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - ec109685 9y ago
    The $200 Uber was charging would have been fine over the lifetime of the lease. The problem was that people were turning their car in way early and cars depreciate a lot faster early in their life than later.
Domenic_S 9y ago
> I'm thinking 20 cents for car depreciation, 5 cents for tires, 10 cents for gas, 10 cents for insurance, another 5 cents for misc maintenance costs, the IRS 50 cent estimate isn't bad. The point here though is that insurance doesn't go up if you drive for Uber, you would have bought it anyway and paid the same amount. That can be erased from the calculation. The largest part of depreciation for late-model cars, age of the vehicle, is happening whether you drive for Uber or not, so delete (IMO) $0.15 of that $0.20 from depreciation. (If the car is not late-model, the difference between 150k miles and 250k miles is probably less than $1k.) So the calculation is more like: 5 cents for car depreciation, 5 cents for tires, 10 cents for gas, 0 marginal cents for insurance, another 5 cents for misc maintenance costs = $0.25.
- jsjohnst 9y ago
  > The point here though is that insurance doesn't go up if you drive for Uber That’s simply not true for many insurance policies that a prospective driver would have.
  - Domenic_S 9y ago
    Uber provides insurance, but you’re welcome to prove me wrong. You only addressed one point...
    - jsjohnst 9y ago
      This isn’t a court room, I don’t need to counter every point you made. Besides, your own wording implies that was the important point you were trying to make. Re: uber insurance Uber only provides additional coverage, you still need to have personal insurance too, and only for liability are they primary during a trip. https://www.policygenius.com/blog/insurance-secret-uber-doesnt-want-know/ https://www.policygenius.com/blog/insurance-secret-uber-does... Via another source: > Uber requires all of their drivers to have car insurance, and provides supplemental insurance coverage, but only while the app is on. Here’s how it works: When the Uber app is off, a driver is covered by their own personal car insurance. When the Uber app is turned on, a low level of liability insurance becomes active. When a trip is accepted, a higher level of coverage kicks in and remains active until the passenger exits the vehicle. Limited liability coverage only when there isn’t a passenger in the car, hence comprehensive is your personal insurance. If your insurance finds out you are using for business and you didn’t disclose (and pay a higher rate), guess what, your claim is denied and your insurance is dropped most likely. A simple google search provided that info. Edit: here’s the link on Uber’s own site to back up the policy. It clearly states the above, comprehensive is supplemental and only while a trip is active (Aka with passenger). https://www.uber.com/newsroom/insurance-ridesharing-uber/ https://www.uber.com/newsroom/insurance-ridesharing-uber/

by VLM 9y ago

nkurz 9y ago

I'm thinking 20 cents for car depreciation, 5 cents for tires, 10 cents for gas, 10 cents for insurance, another 5 cents for misc maintenance costs, the IRS 50 cent estimate isn't bad. These numbers are very difficult to align with the prices advertised by the rental companies for Uber and Lyft drivers, which are usually claimed to be about $200 per week: https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/loans/5-ways-car-uber-lyft/ https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/loans/5-ways-car-uber-lyft/ For example, Hertz's site says they charge a base of $214 a week for Uber drivers, including unlimited mileage and insurance, but not including taxes, fees or fuel: https://www.hertz.com/rentacar/misc/index.jsp?targetPage=UberFAQs.jsp https://www.hertz.com/rentacar/misc/index.jsp?targetPage=Ube... While it's possible that the rental companies are losing money on these rentals or that the undisclosed fees are much more than the rental cost, I think the more likely explanation is that your estimate is inaccurate. Do you have another explanation for the discrepancy?

ams6110 9y ago
Hertz buys cars for less than you can because they buy thousands per year. Hertz also maintains cars for less because they employ their mechanics and probably pay wholesale for common parts, while you pay $40/hr or more for labor and double retail for parts when you take you car to a shop for service.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
SilasX 9y ago
>These numbers are very difficult to align with the prices advertised by the rental companies for Uber and Lyft drivers, which are usually claimed to be about $200 per week: That $200/week turned out to be severely undercharging. According to this article [1], it allowed the driver to put a lot of miles on the car without paying its full depreciation: >>"The Xchange Leasing division had been estimating modest losses of around $500 per auto on average, these people said. But managers recently informed Uber executives that the losses were actually about $9,000 per car — about half the sticker price of a typical leased vehicle." >>The "unlimited miles" allowed drivers to work long days and return vehicles with way too many miles, which kills the resale value. So, Uber is shutting it down. Side note: a lot of people were getting this wrong and screaming bloody murder about how exploitative the leases were. The problem was, they were comparing it to the really-long-term lease you might get as a substitute for buying a car, in which you're still responsible for maintenance, not the kind of lease that covers high usage and major maintenance over unlimited miles. [1] https://wolfstreet.com/2017/08/09/uber-gets-run-over-by-its-own-subprime-auto-leases/ https://wolfstreet.com/2017/08/09/uber-gets-run-over-by-its-...
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- ec109685 9y ago
  The $200 Uber was charging would have been fine over the lifetime of the lease. The problem was that people were turning their car in way early and cars depreciate a lot faster early in their life than later.

Domenic_S 9y ago

> I'm thinking 20 cents for car depreciation, 5 cents for tires, 10 cents for gas, 10 cents for insurance, another 5 cents for misc maintenance costs, the IRS 50 cent estimate isn't bad. The point here though is that insurance doesn't go up if you drive for Uber, you would have bought it anyway and paid the same amount. That can be erased from the calculation. The largest part of depreciation for late-model cars, age of the vehicle, is happening whether you drive for Uber or not, so delete (IMO) $0.15 of that $0.20 from depreciation. (If the car is not late-model, the difference between 150k miles and 250k miles is probably less than $1k.) So the calculation is more like: 5 cents for car depreciation, 5 cents for tires, 10 cents for gas, 0 marginal cents for insurance, another 5 cents for misc maintenance costs = $0.25.

jsjohnst 9y ago
> The point here though is that insurance doesn't go up if you drive for Uber That’s simply not true for many insurance policies that a prospective driver would have.
- Domenic_S 9y ago
  Uber provides insurance, but you’re welcome to prove me wrong. You only addressed one point...
  - jsjohnst 9y ago
    This isn’t a court room, I don’t need to counter every point you made. Besides, your own wording implies that was the important point you were trying to make. Re: uber insurance Uber only provides additional coverage, you still need to have personal insurance too, and only for liability are they primary during a trip. https://www.policygenius.com/blog/insurance-secret-uber-doesnt-want-know/ https://www.policygenius.com/blog/insurance-secret-uber-does... Via another source: > Uber requires all of their drivers to have car insurance, and provides supplemental insurance coverage, but only while the app is on. Here’s how it works: When the Uber app is off, a driver is covered by their own personal car insurance. When the Uber app is turned on, a low level of liability insurance becomes active. When a trip is accepted, a higher level of coverage kicks in and remains active until the passenger exits the vehicle. Limited liability coverage only when there isn’t a passenger in the car, hence comprehensive is your personal insurance. If your insurance finds out you are using for business and you didn’t disclose (and pay a higher rate), guess what, your claim is denied and your insurance is dropped most likely. A simple google search provided that info. Edit: here’s the link on Uber’s own site to back up the policy. It clearly states the above, comprehensive is supplemental and only while a trip is active (Aka with passenger). https://www.uber.com/newsroom/insurance-ridesharing-uber/ https://www.uber.com/newsroom/insurance-ridesharing-uber/