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"I'm wondering, if the laws pass, can people use Tor to keep the actual site they visit hidden, and avoid caps?" Tor will also be capped. So far ISPs seem to

"I'm wondering, if the laws pass, can people use Tor to keep the actual site they visit hidden, and avoid caps?" Tor will also be capped. So far ISPs seem to be interested in a strategy of capping everything by default, then removing caps for select services. Tor, VPNs, etc. are unlikely to be selected for non-capped service, especially once ISPs start charging for caps (not only is the Tor project in no position to pay countless ISPs, but if it were not capped then as you suggested people could evade caps and reduce the benefit of paying to be exempted). "would the end of Net neutrality in the States directly affect other countries, and how?" In the long run it will be a benefit to those countries that maintain net neutrality, by fostering the innovative environment of a neutral Internet. In the short term it will probably have no particular impact on anyone outside the US, other than reducing the rate at which new ideas are brought to market in the US.

nkkollaw 9y ago
Makes sense, thanks for the explanation.
hodgesrm 9y ago
I'm curious--why do you argue Tor will be capped? Let's assume ISPs will cap traffic in an effort to extract extra revenue for particular types of traffic. Tor is used by a relatively small percentage of people and carries a small amount of overall network traffic. [1] It does not seem worth the marketing effort (let alone network administration) to extract revenue from its users. If I were an ISP I would be much more likely to try to extract revenue from video downloads. It's a vastly bigger market that uses far more network bandwidth, hence seems like an obvious target. It's also a big market for mobile users. [1] https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/tor-dark-net-study-size/ https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/tor-dark-net-study-size/
- betterunix2 9y ago
  I think the most likely outcome, which is already the case for mobile, is that all traffic will be capped by default and that exemptions will be given to specific services that pay for the privilege or that meet requirements set by ISPs (e.g. what T-Mobile has been doing). Since nobody will pay to exempt Tor, Tor will count against the cap just like everything else -- this is already the case for mobile ISPs. The goal is to charge for exemptions to data caps (or throttling), and that means everything has to be capped (or throttled) until someone will pay.
  - hodgesrm 9y ago
    Thanks for the patient explanation. I should have read your original comment more carefully. One could argue that capping effectively exists in many US regions due to the limited competition in the US broadband market. So one outcome might be that current home users will see little or no change but ISPs will sell value-added uncapped video, etc. As far as I can tell the line capacity already exists in many locations. On the whole it would be vastly better for consumers to introduce more local competition.

nkkollaw 9y ago

Makes sense, thanks for the explanation.

hodgesrm 9y ago

I'm curious--why do you argue Tor will be capped? Let's assume ISPs will cap traffic in an effort to extract extra revenue for particular types of traffic. Tor is used by a relatively small percentage of people and carries a small amount of overall network traffic. [1] It does not seem worth the marketing effort (let alone network administration) to extract revenue from its users. If I were an ISP I would be much more likely to try to extract revenue from video downloads. It's a vastly bigger market that uses far more network bandwidth, hence seems like an obvious target. It's also a big market for mobile users. [1] https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/tor-dark-net-study-size/ https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/tor-dark-net-study-size/

betterunix2 9y ago
I think the most likely outcome, which is already the case for mobile, is that all traffic will be capped by default and that exemptions will be given to specific services that pay for the privilege or that meet requirements set by ISPs (e.g. what T-Mobile has been doing). Since nobody will pay to exempt Tor, Tor will count against the cap just like everything else -- this is already the case for mobile ISPs. The goal is to charge for exemptions to data caps (or throttling), and that means everything has to be capped (or throttled) until someone will pay.
- hodgesrm 9y ago
  Thanks for the patient explanation. I should have read your original comment more carefully. One could argue that capping effectively exists in many US regions due to the limited competition in the US broadband market. So one outcome might be that current home users will see little or no change but ISPs will sell value-added uncapped video, etc. As far as I can tell the line capacity already exists in many locations. On the whole it would be vastly better for consumers to introduce more local competition.