3 ms·

I think most people are in agreement that the lithium ion battery is less-than-ideal technology that's due for replacement. And we have a number of innovations

I think most people are in agreement that the lithium ion battery is less-than-ideal technology that's due for replacement. And we have a number of innovations in battery technology vying for the opportunity. It's starting to feel a bit like Tesla's massive investments are only serving to further entrench the existing battery model. He's basically working to replace Big Oil with Big Lithium. There's no denying the benefits of breaking our addiction to fossil fuels, but we need to be mindful of the obstacles to tomorrow's progress we're erecting in the name of today's.

maratd 9y ago
> And we have a number of innovations in battery technology vying for the opportunity. No, we don't. We have lots of news articles about amazing breakthroughs and absolutely nothing in actual production. > It's starting to feel a bit like Tesla's massive investments are only serving to further entrench the existing battery model. If you can come up with a battery chemistry that outperforms lithium ion, there will be nothing stopping the absolutely massive torrential downpour of money on top of you. Batteries are used everywhere, not just in cars. A new chemistry that works well would be huge. The problem is that there's lots of hype and marginal results when it comes to new battery tech.
dreamcompiler 9y ago
> He's basically working to replace Big Oil with Big Lithium. Electric cars need X kg of elemental lithium over the lifetime of the car. ICE cars need [on the order of] X kg of gasoline every 200 miles. This makes such a huge quantitative difference that comparing lithium mining to oil mining is almost pointless. In addition, lithium can in principle be recycled when the battery wears out. Gasoline cannot be recycled, even in principle.
- nbanks 9y ago
  Some CO2 hydrogenation processes can produce liquid fuels which is kind of like recycling gasoline, but this is much more complicated than recycling batteries. It may still prove useful for fueling rockets or aircraft in a CO2 neutral way.
  - dreamcompiler 9y ago
    Understood. My former employer was researching this. But taking the separated atoms of gasoline and rebuilding hydrocarbon molecules from them is -- as you say -- not quite the same thing as recycling. And it requires very large energy inputs. It only really makes sense for aircraft fuel, since large or high-performance aircraft cannot (yet) be powered by batteries.

maratd 9y ago

> And we have a number of innovations in battery technology vying for the opportunity. No, we don't. We have lots of news articles about amazing breakthroughs and absolutely nothing in actual production. > It's starting to feel a bit like Tesla's massive investments are only serving to further entrench the existing battery model. If you can come up with a battery chemistry that outperforms lithium ion, there will be nothing stopping the absolutely massive torrential downpour of money on top of you. Batteries are used everywhere, not just in cars. A new chemistry that works well would be huge. The problem is that there's lots of hype and marginal results when it comes to new battery tech.

dreamcompiler 9y ago

> He's basically working to replace Big Oil with Big Lithium. Electric cars need X kg of elemental lithium over the lifetime of the car. ICE cars need [on the order of] X kg of gasoline every 200 miles. This makes such a huge quantitative difference that comparing lithium mining to oil mining is almost pointless. In addition, lithium can in principle be recycled when the battery wears out. Gasoline cannot be recycled, even in principle.

nbanks 9y ago
Some CO2 hydrogenation processes can produce liquid fuels which is kind of like recycling gasoline, but this is much more complicated than recycling batteries. It may still prove useful for fueling rockets or aircraft in a CO2 neutral way.
- dreamcompiler 9y ago
  Understood. My former employer was researching this. But taking the separated atoms of gasoline and rebuilding hydrocarbon molecules from them is -- as you say -- not quite the same thing as recycling. And it requires very large energy inputs. It only really makes sense for aircraft fuel, since large or high-performance aircraft cannot (yet) be powered by batteries.