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I can't take this author seriously. There is no way that Tesla is paying $1/kw. That is way past the retail rate, and I bet that they are paying much less than

by jsight 9y ago

I can't take this author seriously. There is no way that Tesla is paying $1/kw. That is way past the retail rate, and I bet that they are paying much less than the retail rate in many of their markets.

vvanders 9y ago
Yeah, that's definitely bullshit, esp considering residential power in the PNW is $0.07/kWh.
- DannyBee 9y ago
  Residential power is often cheaper than commercial (at least, small scale) in practice. One reason is that commercial folks pay surcharges for power factor. For example, in San Jose, CA, the average residential is ~$0.156/kwh Commercial is $0.1408/kwh [1]. If you operate at a 90% power factor, and are surcharged the other 10%, ... [1] https://www.electricitylocal.com/states/california/san-jose/ https://www.electricitylocal.com/states/california/san-jose/ But yeah, at Tesla's scale, it should not be $1/kw. I could believe that to be the all-in cost for a supercharger or something weird like that. Because they should be paying close to the industrial rate, if not lower.
  - jimrandomh 9y ago
    Nope. Electricity for residential use costs more than electricity for commercial use, which costs more than electricity for industrial use. A fast-charging truck stop is most similar to industrial use, since it involves a lot of power at a single location, and probably also can give the utility at least a few minutes warning before ramping up to full power. From the Energy Information Administration: https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.php?t=epmt_5_6_a https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.ph...
toomuchtodo 9y ago
Not only does Tesla negotiate their electrical rate, they use PowerPacks at several supercharger sites to shave peak load to reduce and/or eliminate demand charges.
bryanlarsen 9y ago
They would if they were pulling straight from the grid. Go to your power company and ask how much it would cost to surge a mega watt of power at peak times. Those kinds of surges are really expensive to handle. Of course Tesla uses storage and solar to smooth their demand so that they can pay normal rates.
- nimos 9y ago
  $1/kwh is a joke price. Peaking natural gas plants run at 20 cents/kwh on the high end. You can go buy a honda gas generator from home depot and run it for 1-2k hours and pay less than that per kwh.
- jsight 9y ago
  I get your point, and you are probably right somewhere in the country. Having said that, we have industrial plants around here with similar issues, and I'm confident that the rates that they pay are vastly lower than even the $0.07/kwh that Tesla is talking about. $1/kwh is an extreme outlier and essentially pointless to talk about. There are lots of other options at that price point.

by jsight 9y ago

vvanders 9y ago

Yeah, that's definitely bullshit, esp considering residential power in the PNW is $0.07/kWh.

DannyBee 9y ago
Residential power is often cheaper than commercial (at least, small scale) in practice. One reason is that commercial folks pay surcharges for power factor. For example, in San Jose, CA, the average residential is ~$0.156/kwh Commercial is $0.1408/kwh [1]. If you operate at a 90% power factor, and are surcharged the other 10%, ... [1] https://www.electricitylocal.com/states/california/san-jose/ https://www.electricitylocal.com/states/california/san-jose/ But yeah, at Tesla's scale, it should not be $1/kw. I could believe that to be the all-in cost for a supercharger or something weird like that. Because they should be paying close to the industrial rate, if not lower.
- jimrandomh 9y ago
  Nope. Electricity for residential use costs more than electricity for commercial use, which costs more than electricity for industrial use. A fast-charging truck stop is most similar to industrial use, since it involves a lot of power at a single location, and probably also can give the utility at least a few minutes warning before ramping up to full power. From the Energy Information Administration: https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.php?t=epmt_5_6_a https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.ph...

toomuchtodo 9y ago

Not only does Tesla negotiate their electrical rate, they use PowerPacks at several supercharger sites to shave peak load to reduce and/or eliminate demand charges.

bryanlarsen 9y ago

They would if they were pulling straight from the grid. Go to your power company and ask how much it would cost to surge a mega watt of power at peak times. Those kinds of surges are really expensive to handle. Of course Tesla uses storage and solar to smooth their demand so that they can pay normal rates.

nimos 9y ago
$1/kwh is a joke price. Peaking natural gas plants run at 20 cents/kwh on the high end. You can go buy a honda gas generator from home depot and run it for 1-2k hours and pay less than that per kwh.
jsight 9y ago
I get your point, and you are probably right somewhere in the country. Having said that, we have industrial plants around here with similar issues, and I'm confident that the rates that they pay are vastly lower than even the $0.07/kwh that Tesla is talking about. $1/kwh is an extreme outlier and essentially pointless to talk about. There are lots of other options at that price point.