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If this were any other company making such unsubstantiated claims that didn't have any basis in the reality of the underlying technology, they'd be getting roas

If this were any other company making such unsubstantiated claims that didn't have any basis in the reality of the underlying technology, they'd be getting roasted here.

jsight 9y ago
I don't really agree. If another company rolled a 200kwh car out of the back of a truck, did a few passes of the stage, gave passengers rides (high speed launches) for a while, and then reported ~60% battery remaining, I think most would believe them. We would also wonder about making it to production, but Tesla actually has a halfway decent track record at that.
- lukealization 9y ago
  > If another company rolled a 200kwh car out of the back of a truck ... That's the thing. They didn't. The roadster concept didn't have 200kWh in it at all.
  - _ph_ 9y ago
    It might not have exactly 200kWh of battery installed, but one reason for planning such a large battery is to be able to support the neccessary current levels for the accelleration they have demonstrated. So they couldn't have just put a small battery in the car either.
  - jsight 9y ago
    At the show, they were saying that it did. Do you have some evidence to the contrary?
ktta 9y ago
Well, the article makes it sounds like they are defying physics - "breaks laws of batteries"? Then also quotes >“I don't think they're lying,” Jaffe said. “I just think they left something out of the public reveal that would have explained how these numbers work.” There are no laws here, just advances in battery tech, and people believe Tesla is at the forefront of that AFAIK. Sure, they might be making claims that are hard to believe, but isn't the point of Tesla doing exactly that?
matt4077 9y ago
You may be right. But there's nothing wrong with it. Tesla has done amazing things, and so has SpaceX. Yes, they're in the habit of being late. But neither has, as far as I can remember, ever produced "vapourware" they didn't eventually start selling. For a nice reference: see this comment sceptical of Tesla's capability to deliver this 100MW battery in Australia in 100 days. Which was just recently completed on time. The tone reads surprisingly similar to the Bloomberg article ("To say nothing of the near 50 degree weather beating down on old infrastructre that spans thousands of very sparse kilometers.") https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13838355 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13838355 People, and companies, have reputations. Those have to be taken into account when judging their claims. Note also that all of the claims of the article are in the "this is hard" territory, not any actual "this is perpetual motion" sort of impossibility as the title alludes to. The example that seems easiest to judge is doubling the capacity of the roadster battery: The current Model S battery is a rather thin sheet underneath the car. I have absolutely no doubt that you can fit twice the volume into the same frame. It gets only easier if there are any advances in battery density, or if car grows only slightly in every dimension.
- LoSboccacc 9y ago
  Gonna bet that being an hypercar they got the space for batteries by having a lower ground clearance That said I’m still skeptical aboutthe figures given but not because of the batteries - it takes lot of engineering to keep a car togheter at those speeds: most of the components will be quite close to the limit of material science and tesla is not exactly known for its quality control pipeline.

If this were any other company making such unsubstantiated claims that didn't have any basis in the reality of the underlying technology, they'd be getting roasted here.

jsight 9y ago

I don't really agree. If another company rolled a 200kwh car out of the back of a truck, did a few passes of the stage, gave passengers rides (high speed launches) for a while, and then reported ~60% battery remaining, I think most would believe them. We would also wonder about making it to production, but Tesla actually has a halfway decent track record at that.

lukealization 9y ago
> If another company rolled a 200kwh car out of the back of a truck ... That's the thing. They didn't. The roadster concept didn't have 200kWh in it at all.
- _ph_ 9y ago
  It might not have exactly 200kWh of battery installed, but one reason for planning such a large battery is to be able to support the neccessary current levels for the accelleration they have demonstrated. So they couldn't have just put a small battery in the car either.
- jsight 9y ago
  At the show, they were saying that it did. Do you have some evidence to the contrary?

ktta 9y ago

Well, the article makes it sounds like they are defying physics - "breaks laws of batteries"? Then also quotes >“I don't think they're lying,” Jaffe said. “I just think they left something out of the public reveal that would have explained how these numbers work.” There are no laws here, just advances in battery tech, and people believe Tesla is at the forefront of that AFAIK. Sure, they might be making claims that are hard to believe, but isn't the point of Tesla doing exactly that?

matt4077 9y ago

You may be right. But there's nothing wrong with it. Tesla has done amazing things, and so has SpaceX. Yes, they're in the habit of being late. But neither has, as far as I can remember, ever produced "vapourware" they didn't eventually start selling. For a nice reference: see this comment sceptical of Tesla's capability to deliver this 100MW battery in Australia in 100 days. Which was just recently completed on time. The tone reads surprisingly similar to the Bloomberg article ("To say nothing of the near 50 degree weather beating down on old infrastructre that spans thousands of very sparse kilometers.") https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13838355 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13838355 People, and companies, have reputations. Those have to be taken into account when judging their claims. Note also that all of the claims of the article are in the "this is hard" territory, not any actual "this is perpetual motion" sort of impossibility as the title alludes to. The example that seems easiest to judge is doubling the capacity of the roadster battery: The current Model S battery is a rather thin sheet underneath the car. I have absolutely no doubt that you can fit twice the volume into the same frame. It gets only easier if there are any advances in battery density, or if car grows only slightly in every dimension.

LoSboccacc 9y ago
Gonna bet that being an hypercar they got the space for batteries by having a lower ground clearance That said I’m still skeptical aboutthe figures given but not because of the batteries - it takes lot of engineering to keep a car togheter at those speeds: most of the components will be quite close to the limit of material science and tesla is not exactly known for its quality control pipeline.