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I've owned a Macbook Pro 2015. I've also owned about 3 different Cherry Blue MX mechanical keyboards. I pre-ordered the new Macbook Pro 2016 when it originally

I've owned a Macbook Pro 2015. I've also owned about 3 different Cherry Blue MX mechanical keyboards. I pre-ordered the new Macbook Pro 2016 when it originally came out. Here's my take after using it for more than 6-7? months (no clue, time goes by): 1) I am extremely happy with the butterfly keyboard. There is absolutely no issues with it for me and it's my ideal keyboard. I honestly do not understand people who say the accuracy is bad on it - perfectly fine for me. Use it for long enough and you'll get used to it. The only thing it is guilty of is being different. 2) I enjoy the Touchbar and TouchID, it genuinely feels nice to use it. ESC key being on the touch bar is something you get used to, but understandably if I was a huge user of VIM it would probably make me extremely upset. Thankfully I'm not and it works fine for me. I genuinely do not notice it anymore. 3) I ran out of USB-C ports on my laptop (4 total). I have pretty much all of them in use, so I now need to resort to USB-C <-> USB A hubs. For some reason, USB-C <-> USB-C hubs don't exist, so that honestly sucks considering I completely switched to USB-C plugs before I ran out. 4) Touchpad size is much better than 2015 MBP. After using this so much I could never go back to a smaller touchpad, and using my old 2015 MBP just honestly feels bad. It might be due to my sensitivity? I have no clue why people say their hands hit the touchpad since I have never had that issue in my entire time owning it. 5) CPU and memory is great. I can run multiple virtual machines in Parallels no issue. I develop games and constantly test them in the background. I really see absolutely zero drawback from the 2015 MBP, and even though on a spec-sheet the hardware /looks/ worse, in my experience it performs much better. Take what you will from my experiences.

tehwebguy 9y ago
Re: #1 Agreed, my MacBook 12” keyboard is my favorite so far. My wife’s, however, feels like crap. Same year, only difference is color.
- iscoelho 9y ago
  Yeah I enjoy butterfly switches so much that I'd be genuinely upset if Apple gave in and changed back.
  - ricardobeat 9y ago
    You’ve also been lucky. Everyone is getting sticky and dead keys on these. I had “B” stick and double press, eventually it stopped after a few more weeks of use, but you can feel a key here and there being a little stubborn. It’s way more fragile than older keyboards.
    - iscoelho 9y ago
      That's really wierd because I'm told that I smack my keyboard, and I've never had an issue with the keys breaking or becoming dead/sticky. I guess I'm really lucky, but I'm fine with that. Either way, the butterfly keyboard shouldn't be blamed for a technical failure. The keyboard itself when it's working is perfectly fine to use. Apple justs needs to perfect it until they get it right.
      - saurik 9y ago
        It isn't that the keys break due to you hitting them, it is that if there is even a miniscule piece of dust that gets into the keyboard it makes the key simply stop working entirely and the probability of breaking the key trying to replace or fix it is very high.
    - scottmf 9y ago
      I’ve had this happen too. But I wouldn’t want to go back to the previous gen keyboard.
    - SyneRyder 9y ago
      Also, it's happening so often to customers that there is a 3 week waiting period for keyboard replacements at Apple Stores, and sometimes the replacement keyboards are breaking even before Apple can install them: https://twitter.com/stuartkhall/status/924889375011258369 https://twitter.com/stuartkhall/status/924889375011258369 https://twitter.com/stuartkhall/status/929578083123736578 https://twitter.com/stuartkhall/status/929578083123736578
Chernobog 9y ago
Glad to hear you are happy with your purchase! What I have noticed with the MacBook Pro 2016 and beyond is that they are way more polarising than previous generations. Sure, there were issues with the older Retina models, but nothing nearly as controversial as the keyboard, touch bar and ports on the latest models. I can understand that not everyone liked the old keyboard either, but I can't recall large numbers of people hating it to such degree as to call it a show stopper for purchasing a new portable Mac.
brandonmenc 9y ago
> I am extremely happy with the butterfly keyboard Agree. So much so, that I ordered the new Magic Keyboard for desktop use (which uses similar switches) to replace the previous-generation Apple Wireless Keyboard. The new MacBook Pro keyboard is the best I've ever used. My fingers feel like they're flying over the keys. And I've owned all sorts of mechanical keyboards, ThinkPads, and odd devices like the DataHand. I really don't understand all the hate for the new keyboard. Or USB-C. Or the Touch Bar.
- mistersquid 9y ago
  I'm here to third this assessment. The feel of the butterfly switch is so much better for long bouts of coding/typing and, in my particular case, improved accuracy. I think the issue is that the scissors switch encourages typing using the tips of the fingers (deeper key travel) whereas the butterfly keys encourage using the pads of the fingers which reduces exertion and fatigue. My understanding is that the failure rate for the butterfly keys is "significant [...] but 'less than 5% for sure.'" [0] Marco Ament (thread OP) and John Gruber (Daring Fireball) are proponents of keyboards that take more effort to use, Gruber's favorite keyboard being the Apple Extended Keyboard II. [1][2] Some aficionados' opinions about keyboards reach heights usually reserved for out-of-production American muscle-car transmissions. [3] Reading the tenor of some descriptions of the action of these old-timey keyboards, e.g. > tank but with a more metallic, punchy feel, and an audible note to its > astoundingly loud typing sound, [3] one can practically feel the adoration of these self-identified keyboard nerds for a particular type of vintage keyboard. I personally prefer subtlety and finesse when I interaction with peripheral devices, so I welcome the move toward shallower key travel. YMMV [0] https://theoutline.com/post/2402/the-new-macbook-keyboard-is-ruining-my-life [1] https://daringfireball.net/linked/2012/04/16/my-favorite-keyboard [2] https://www.flickr.com/photos/gruber/sets/72157604797968156/ [3] http://www.penmachine.com/2008/04/keyboard-nerdery-apple-extended EDIT: spelling, punctuation, capitalization, modify adverbial phrase, add adjective.
  - Terretta 9y ago
    Could be whether you learned to type on a typewriter or IBM model M keyboard versus something considerably more recent.
xirdstl 9y ago
Do you find the Touchbar actually useful, or are you just indifferent / don't really use it?
- iscoelho 9y ago
  I think the Touchbar could potentially be useful, but besides being cool and myself really liking sliders, I don't get practical use out of it, at least maybe not to warrant $400 for some people.
- lwhalen 9y ago
  I have a $job-provided MBP with the touchbar, and I find it actively evil. I am _constantly_ resting my fingers in the general vicinity of the top row, which triggers F11-type behavior, volume changes, esc-key hits, etc. It is a _damnably_ sensitive gimmick, pressure-sensitivity would improve it, but in general its a solution looking for a problem. In its current incarnation, I do not like it at all.
  - iscoelho 9y ago
    Where do you rest your hands to be able to trigger it? When I rest my hands I can't even reach that far with my fingers, much less press something by mistake. edit: personally I rest my palm on my desk when I am using the touchpad, and rest my palms on each side of the touchpad when I am using the keyboard.
    - portlander12345 9y ago
      I’m constantly brushing mine by accident, not sure exactly how. I think it would be improved immensely by just being very slightly harder to trigger, either with pressure or dwell time.
  - xirdstl 9y ago
    When it was announced, there was a lot of backlash, but I thought I'd keep an open yet skeptical mind. Fast forward, I hear mostly indifferent or negative things. I am very curious to see what Apple does with it going forward. Can they admit it was a bust and move past it? Will they insist it is the amazing innovation they advertised and keep pushing it? Will they get rid of it but spin it in such a way that it was an amazing feature that they've now innovated past? Disclaimer: I'm generally an Apple fan since getting the first iPhone a decade ago. However I'm struggling to find compelling reasons to upgrade in their latest couple rounds of product releases. Partly, I'm sure, is that getting older I'm not as enamored with having the absolute latest toys to play with.

tehwebguy 9y ago

Re: #1 Agreed, my MacBook 12” keyboard is my favorite so far. My wife’s, however, feels like crap. Same year, only difference is color.

iscoelho 9y ago
Yeah I enjoy butterfly switches so much that I'd be genuinely upset if Apple gave in and changed back.
- ricardobeat 9y ago
  You’ve also been lucky. Everyone is getting sticky and dead keys on these. I had “B” stick and double press, eventually it stopped after a few more weeks of use, but you can feel a key here and there being a little stubborn. It’s way more fragile than older keyboards.
  - iscoelho 9y ago
    That's really wierd because I'm told that I smack my keyboard, and I've never had an issue with the keys breaking or becoming dead/sticky. I guess I'm really lucky, but I'm fine with that. Either way, the butterfly keyboard shouldn't be blamed for a technical failure. The keyboard itself when it's working is perfectly fine to use. Apple justs needs to perfect it until they get it right.
    - saurik 9y ago
      It isn't that the keys break due to you hitting them, it is that if there is even a miniscule piece of dust that gets into the keyboard it makes the key simply stop working entirely and the probability of breaking the key trying to replace or fix it is very high.
  - scottmf 9y ago
    I’ve had this happen too. But I wouldn’t want to go back to the previous gen keyboard.
  - SyneRyder 9y ago
    Also, it's happening so often to customers that there is a 3 week waiting period for keyboard replacements at Apple Stores, and sometimes the replacement keyboards are breaking even before Apple can install them: https://twitter.com/stuartkhall/status/924889375011258369 https://twitter.com/stuartkhall/status/924889375011258369 https://twitter.com/stuartkhall/status/929578083123736578 https://twitter.com/stuartkhall/status/929578083123736578

Chernobog 9y ago

Glad to hear you are happy with your purchase! What I have noticed with the MacBook Pro 2016 and beyond is that they are way more polarising than previous generations. Sure, there were issues with the older Retina models, but nothing nearly as controversial as the keyboard, touch bar and ports on the latest models. I can understand that not everyone liked the old keyboard either, but I can't recall large numbers of people hating it to such degree as to call it a show stopper for purchasing a new portable Mac.

brandonmenc 9y ago

> I am extremely happy with the butterfly keyboard Agree. So much so, that I ordered the new Magic Keyboard for desktop use (which uses similar switches) to replace the previous-generation Apple Wireless Keyboard. The new MacBook Pro keyboard is the best I've ever used. My fingers feel like they're flying over the keys. And I've owned all sorts of mechanical keyboards, ThinkPads, and odd devices like the DataHand. I really don't understand all the hate for the new keyboard. Or USB-C. Or the Touch Bar.

mistersquid 9y ago
I'm here to third this assessment. The feel of the butterfly switch is so much better for long bouts of coding/typing and, in my particular case, improved accuracy. I think the issue is that the scissors switch encourages typing using the tips of the fingers (deeper key travel) whereas the butterfly keys encourage using the pads of the fingers which reduces exertion and fatigue. My understanding is that the failure rate for the butterfly keys is "significant [...] but 'less than 5% for sure.'" [0] Marco Ament (thread OP) and John Gruber (Daring Fireball) are proponents of keyboards that take more effort to use, Gruber's favorite keyboard being the Apple Extended Keyboard II. [1][2] Some aficionados' opinions about keyboards reach heights usually reserved for out-of-production American muscle-car transmissions. [3] Reading the tenor of some descriptions of the action of these old-timey keyboards, e.g. > tank but with a more metallic, punchy feel, and an audible note to its > astoundingly loud typing sound, [3] one can practically feel the adoration of these self-identified keyboard nerds for a particular type of vintage keyboard. I personally prefer subtlety and finesse when I interaction with peripheral devices, so I welcome the move toward shallower key travel. YMMV [0] https://theoutline.com/post/2402/the-new-macbook-keyboard-is-ruining-my-life [1] https://daringfireball.net/linked/2012/04/16/my-favorite-keyboard [2] https://www.flickr.com/photos/gruber/sets/72157604797968156/ [3] http://www.penmachine.com/2008/04/keyboard-nerdery-apple-extended EDIT: spelling, punctuation, capitalization, modify adverbial phrase, add adjective.
- Terretta 9y ago
  Could be whether you learned to type on a typewriter or IBM model M keyboard versus something considerably more recent.

xirdstl 9y ago

Do you find the Touchbar actually useful, or are you just indifferent / don't really use it?

iscoelho 9y ago
I think the Touchbar could potentially be useful, but besides being cool and myself really liking sliders, I don't get practical use out of it, at least maybe not to warrant $400 for some people.
lwhalen 9y ago
I have a $job-provided MBP with the touchbar, and I find it actively evil. I am _constantly_ resting my fingers in the general vicinity of the top row, which triggers F11-type behavior, volume changes, esc-key hits, etc. It is a _damnably_ sensitive gimmick, pressure-sensitivity would improve it, but in general its a solution looking for a problem. In its current incarnation, I do not like it at all.
- iscoelho 9y ago
  Where do you rest your hands to be able to trigger it? When I rest my hands I can't even reach that far with my fingers, much less press something by mistake. edit: personally I rest my palm on my desk when I am using the touchpad, and rest my palms on each side of the touchpad when I am using the keyboard.
  - portlander12345 9y ago
    I’m constantly brushing mine by accident, not sure exactly how. I think it would be improved immensely by just being very slightly harder to trigger, either with pressure or dwell time.
- xirdstl 9y ago
  When it was announced, there was a lot of backlash, but I thought I'd keep an open yet skeptical mind. Fast forward, I hear mostly indifferent or negative things. I am very curious to see what Apple does with it going forward. Can they admit it was a bust and move past it? Will they insist it is the amazing innovation they advertised and keep pushing it? Will they get rid of it but spin it in such a way that it was an amazing feature that they've now innovated past? Disclaimer: I'm generally an Apple fan since getting the first iPhone a decade ago. However I'm struggling to find compelling reasons to upgrade in their latest couple rounds of product releases. Partly, I'm sure, is that getting older I'm not as enamored with having the absolute latest toys to play with.