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Who exactly do you think the "informants" are? So say I'm a dirt poor farmer in Afghanistan. I spent most of my time being terrorized by the Taliban (say for e

Who exactly do you think the "informants" are? So say I'm a dirt poor farmer in Afghanistan. I spent most of my time being terrorized by the Taliban (say for example, they burned my sister alive after they found out I taught her how to read). Now the NATO forces arrive, kick those assholes out, along the way they shell my barn and accidentally kill my brother. I'm pissed off, but on the balance, I know the NATO forces feel bad about my brother and they at least tried to get him some medical care (which is pretty different from the Taliban's response to my sister's last gurgling breath which was to drag her behind a truck and hang her burnt body in the middle of the village as a warning to everybody). So when SGT Smith asks me, "do you know where any Taliban are around here?" I tell him. Because someday NATO will be gone and I can finally get around to growing something in the piss poor soil of my farm and get on with my life. While the Taliban hunted us ragged when they were in charge. Now I find out that my name and coordinates to my village were released into the wild and the local Taliban commander found out about it. I and my family are running for our lives and all some thoughtless jerk on a message board can say about it is that it serves me right.

Ardit20 16y ago
What he still has a family? - I say this lightly because it clearly is fiction. Firstly, the Taliban must be very busy if all they do is go around burning little children who learn how to read. Also, this breadwinner must be quite relieved that his son was killed in a nicer way. Seeing as the Taliban took the trouble to burn his daughter just for reading, I suppose they would consider the father to be their friend, because, well they only burned his daughter. Of course in no way would they think that he hates them to the gut and would happily go along to the guys who kill people in a nice way. I am sorry, there is a serious point there, but do try and make it.
- elblanco 16y ago
  Have you ever read anything about conditions inside Afghanistan under the Taliban? I mean this as a serious question because by your response you seem absolutely ignorant.
  - Ardit20 16y ago
    Common, they not in the business of burning people for - - - reading! You know they have a war to fight and that probably keeps them very busy. Also, by freaking burning a person is a sure way to make enemy of the entire village, so they better go and find some other village. And I think they probably depend to a great extent on the goodwill of the village which probably shelters them and does not hand them over to the soldiers. By burning someone for - reading - is a sure way to vanish that good will and turn it into hate. Now, burning someone as some sort of revenge or punishment for perhaps being and informer might make sense.
    - plinkplonk 16y ago
      "They not in the business of burning people for - - - reading!" Maybe not. But they hang 7 year olds to send a message to his family. http://abcnews.go.com/WN/Afghanistan/bloody-taliban-revenge-hangs-boy-attacks-wedding/story?id=10879315 http://abcnews.go.com/WN/Afghanistan/bloody-taliban-revenge-... That America is fighting a foolish and unwinnable war and instigating a witch hunt for Assange doesn't mean the Taliban aren't sadistic psychopaths.
    - elblanco 16y ago
      http://www.rawa.org/rules.htm http://www.rawa.org/rules.htm http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2007238,00.html http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2007238,00.htm... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/abuse-of-afghan-women-it-was-my-decision-to-die-i-was-getting-beaten-every-day-425580.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/abuse-of-afghan... http://www.dhushara.com/book/sakina/stoningetc/immol.htm http://www.dhushara.com/book/sakina/stoningetc/immol.htm
      - Ardit20 16y ago
        Yeh sure man they are really bad people, but none of the article is about reading, or maybe it is because I only skimmed them. I did say that there is a serious point there, and suggested that you make it. Coming up with such things as they killed him in a nicer way, the Taliban would consider him to be his friend after burning his daughter, rather than probably thinks he really hates them and will inform on them on any chance he has, so really I doubt he is the kind of person the taliban would hardly suspect that he would inform on them, and taking the extreme action of burning a person for reading really are not serious points.
plinkplonk 16y ago
Just playing Devil's advocate here[1], but consider this scenario Most Taliban commanders and fighters are part and parcel of the population, as is typical in any foreign invaders vs home grown guerrillas war - As an Afghan village elder said in Kandahar - "the people you call Taliban are my sister's son and his friends, they are our people" - and the Taliban have informants in the Afghan National Army and other departments of Karzai's government, and one of the main difficulties the American forces have is to identify the Taliban leadership. If Assange were to get a list of Taliban commanders and informants and were to publish them and / or send them to the US army so the Special forces "death squads" could eliminate them/ drag them off to Guantanamo/rendition them to "friendly" nations to be tortured, he would be a hero to all the people decrying them here. So the leaks are bad only if they target one side in a war? This assumes one side is "good" and the other "evil". Patriotism is well and good but it shouldn't interfere with clear thinking. Why exactly should Assange take sides in this war or try to avoid setbacks to the US effort? As to the fictional "dirt poor farmer in Afghanistan" scenario. Here is an alternate scenario. I am a dirt poor farmer in Afghanistan. My father fought in the Jihad against the evil Godless Russians and lost a leg and now I have to support him from my meagre poppy farm - the product of which is bought for hard cash by the Taliban btw. When the Russians left (Glory be to Allah) instead of establishing a government as sanctioned in the Holy Koran (remember I am illiterate and never read the Holy Book All I know is what the village mullah tells me) warlords fought over my village, abducted and raped girls and young boys, taxed us mercilessly and made our lives hell. Then the Taliban came and enforced Islamic Rule and we had relative peace and justice. (The shadow courts of the Taliban still provide us Islamic justice based on the Holy Quran and thh HAdith as opposed to the corrupt Karzai government's "courts", whose judges hide behind American guns and where you can buy judgments in your favour if you are rich, and whose writ doesn't run beyond Kabul anyway). My son now fights for the Taliban against the evil American invaders (whose drones blew up my cousin's wedding party and killed dozens of my relatives btw) just as my father fought against the evil Russian invaders. The Taliban are Afghani (and Islamic) patriots. The Americans are invaders who have no business here. (Osama? Who Osama? oh you mean the great Islamic hero who struck a blow - I am fuzzy on the details, no cable TV in my village- against the infidel West) Of course I support the Taliban. You want me to be a traitor to my own people? Of course such people exist but they are all traitors and Allah's judgement will be on them soon enough. More practically, the Americans will go back home in a year or two, just like the Russians did. The Taliban will still be here.Karzai's writ (as long as the Taliban doesn't hang him from a lamp post like they did Najibullah)won't run beyond Kabul. And as long as the Pakistanis support the Taliban (with American money they say) the Taliban can never be defeated. So when Habibullah, The shadow Taliban governor of my province asks me , "What did the Americans say and do in your village?" I tell him. Because someday NATO will be gone and the Taliban will rule and I can finally get around to growing something in the piss poor soil of my farm and get on with my life. At least they won't blow up any wedding parties looking for imaginary "terrorists" " So much for trying to explain the motives of people who live a world away and whom you've never met ;-). They are easy to make for each side of a conflict, depending on what your intended rhetorical effect is. I could use your justification to defend the Russian invasion. If the welfare of Afghans (vs winning the cold war) was an American priority they should have just left Afghanistan alone. The Taliban were nurtured in Pakistani madrassas, armed by Americans and brainwashed by the Saudis. And now Pakistan is using them for its own ends and playing a double game with the Americans? That was unexpected! ;-) [1] I personally would rather the Americans win than the Taliban. But then I am not an Afghan so I don't need to have any conflicts of loyalty. In this non Afghan's opinion, a successful American occupation is probably the better alternative in the long run for Afghanistan, as would probably have been the case if the Russians had ruled without being interfered with for a decade or two. But then I am a certified "Islamophobe" who'd rather see all religions wither and die, particularly Islam. An (inevitable imo) Taliban victory would just empower the Islamic radicals and we in India would have another round of terrorist bombings and shootings as a result. But that can't be helped at this stage. I (like much of the world) think the American effort is doomed to fail and President Obama (rightly imo) is just trying to redefine "success" and get out asap with some kind of face saving device - ideally the capture of Bin laden and/or Mullah Omar - which is probably where the focus should have been all along vs trying to rebuild Afghanistan as some kind of Jeffersonian democracy. The idea that the American invasion is somehow for the benefit of the Afghans is hilarious and the apparent concern for Afghan informants by people of a country that let its leadership declare two foolish wars is somewhat surreal. Hundreds of thousands of innocent people died due to American actions. Where was the outrage then? And now Assange is the bad guy? Riiiight!

Ardit20 16y ago

What he still has a family? - I say this lightly because it clearly is fiction. Firstly, the Taliban must be very busy if all they do is go around burning little children who learn how to read. Also, this breadwinner must be quite relieved that his son was killed in a nicer way. Seeing as the Taliban took the trouble to burn his daughter just for reading, I suppose they would consider the father to be their friend, because, well they only burned his daughter. Of course in no way would they think that he hates them to the gut and would happily go along to the guys who kill people in a nice way. I am sorry, there is a serious point there, but do try and make it.

elblanco 16y ago
Have you ever read anything about conditions inside Afghanistan under the Taliban? I mean this as a serious question because by your response you seem absolutely ignorant.
- Ardit20 16y ago
  Common, they not in the business of burning people for - - - reading! You know they have a war to fight and that probably keeps them very busy. Also, by freaking burning a person is a sure way to make enemy of the entire village, so they better go and find some other village. And I think they probably depend to a great extent on the goodwill of the village which probably shelters them and does not hand them over to the soldiers. By burning someone for - reading - is a sure way to vanish that good will and turn it into hate. Now, burning someone as some sort of revenge or punishment for perhaps being and informer might make sense.
  - plinkplonk 16y ago
    "They not in the business of burning people for - - - reading!" Maybe not. But they hang 7 year olds to send a message to his family. http://abcnews.go.com/WN/Afghanistan/bloody-taliban-revenge-hangs-boy-attacks-wedding/story?id=10879315 http://abcnews.go.com/WN/Afghanistan/bloody-taliban-revenge-... That America is fighting a foolish and unwinnable war and instigating a witch hunt for Assange doesn't mean the Taliban aren't sadistic psychopaths.
  - elblanco 16y ago
    http://www.rawa.org/rules.htm http://www.rawa.org/rules.htm http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2007238,00.html http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2007238,00.htm... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/abuse-of-afghan-women-it-was-my-decision-to-die-i-was-getting-beaten-every-day-425580.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/abuse-of-afghan... http://www.dhushara.com/book/sakina/stoningetc/immol.htm http://www.dhushara.com/book/sakina/stoningetc/immol.htm
    - Ardit20 16y ago
      Yeh sure man they are really bad people, but none of the article is about reading, or maybe it is because I only skimmed them. I did say that there is a serious point there, and suggested that you make it. Coming up with such things as they killed him in a nicer way, the Taliban would consider him to be his friend after burning his daughter, rather than probably thinks he really hates them and will inform on them on any chance he has, so really I doubt he is the kind of person the taliban would hardly suspect that he would inform on them, and taking the extreme action of burning a person for reading really are not serious points.

plinkplonk 16y ago

Just playing Devil's advocate here[1], but consider this scenario Most Taliban commanders and fighters are part and parcel of the population, as is typical in any foreign invaders vs home grown guerrillas war - As an Afghan village elder said in Kandahar - "the people you call Taliban are my sister's son and his friends, they are our people" - and the Taliban have informants in the Afghan National Army and other departments of Karzai's government, and one of the main difficulties the American forces have is to identify the Taliban leadership. If Assange were to get a list of Taliban commanders and informants and were to publish them and / or send them to the US army so the Special forces "death squads" could eliminate them/ drag them off to Guantanamo/rendition them to "friendly" nations to be tortured, he would be a hero to all the people decrying them here. So the leaks are bad only if they target one side in a war? This assumes one side is "good" and the other "evil". Patriotism is well and good but it shouldn't interfere with clear thinking. Why exactly should Assange take sides in this war or try to avoid setbacks to the US effort? As to the fictional "dirt poor farmer in Afghanistan" scenario. Here is an alternate scenario. I am a dirt poor farmer in Afghanistan. My father fought in the Jihad against the evil Godless Russians and lost a leg and now I have to support him from my meagre poppy farm - the product of which is bought for hard cash by the Taliban btw. When the Russians left (Glory be to Allah) instead of establishing a government as sanctioned in the Holy Koran (remember I am illiterate and never read the Holy Book All I know is what the village mullah tells me) warlords fought over my village, abducted and raped girls and young boys, taxed us mercilessly and made our lives hell. Then the Taliban came and enforced Islamic Rule and we had relative peace and justice. (The shadow courts of the Taliban still provide us Islamic justice based on the Holy Quran and thh HAdith as opposed to the corrupt Karzai government's "courts", whose judges hide behind American guns and where you can buy judgments in your favour if you are rich, and whose writ doesn't run beyond Kabul anyway). My son now fights for the Taliban against the evil American invaders (whose drones blew up my cousin's wedding party and killed dozens of my relatives btw) just as my father fought against the evil Russian invaders. The Taliban are Afghani (and Islamic) patriots. The Americans are invaders who have no business here. (Osama? Who Osama? oh you mean the great Islamic hero who struck a blow - I am fuzzy on the details, no cable TV in my village- against the infidel West) Of course I support the Taliban. You want me to be a traitor to my own people? Of course such people exist but they are all traitors and Allah's judgement will be on them soon enough. More practically, the Americans will go back home in a year or two, just like the Russians did. The Taliban will still be here.Karzai's writ (as long as the Taliban doesn't hang him from a lamp post like they did Najibullah)won't run beyond Kabul. And as long as the Pakistanis support the Taliban (with American money they say) the Taliban can never be defeated. So when Habibullah, The shadow Taliban governor of my province asks me , "What did the Americans say and do in your village?" I tell him. Because someday NATO will be gone and the Taliban will rule and I can finally get around to growing something in the piss poor soil of my farm and get on with my life. At least they won't blow up any wedding parties looking for imaginary "terrorists" " So much for trying to explain the motives of people who live a world away and whom you've never met ;-). They are easy to make for each side of a conflict, depending on what your intended rhetorical effect is. I could use your justification to defend the Russian invasion. If the welfare of Afghans (vs winning the cold war) was an American priority they should have just left Afghanistan alone. The Taliban were nurtured in Pakistani madrassas, armed by Americans and brainwashed by the Saudis. And now Pakistan is using them for its own ends and playing a double game with the Americans? That was unexpected! ;-) [1] I personally would rather the Americans win than the Taliban. But then I am not an Afghan so I don't need to have any conflicts of loyalty. In this non Afghan's opinion, a successful American occupation is probably the better alternative in the long run for Afghanistan, as would probably have been the case if the Russians had ruled without being interfered with for a decade or two. But then I am a certified "Islamophobe" who'd rather see all religions wither and die, particularly Islam. An (inevitable imo) Taliban victory would just empower the Islamic radicals and we in India would have another round of terrorist bombings and shootings as a result. But that can't be helped at this stage. I (like much of the world) think the American effort is doomed to fail and President Obama (rightly imo) is just trying to redefine "success" and get out asap with some kind of face saving device - ideally the capture of Bin laden and/or Mullah Omar - which is probably where the focus should have been all along vs trying to rebuild Afghanistan as some kind of Jeffersonian democracy. The idea that the American invasion is somehow for the benefit of the Afghans is hilarious and the apparent concern for Afghan informants by people of a country that let its leadership declare two foolish wars is somewhat surreal. Hundreds of thousands of innocent people died due to American actions. Where was the outrage then? And now Assange is the bad guy? Riiiight!