4 ms·

It is simple. In the future the Communism will be built, and all the people will be happy. It is absolutely certain. Every current event proves this statement,

by ordu 9y ago

It is simple. In the future the Communism will be built, and all the people will be happy. It is absolutely certain. Every current event proves this statement, if you think otherwise, you should educate youself better by consuming mass media. But the past is not so certain, because the past is under control of the government, and the past undego changes sometimes. The past has its blank spots, there are some unmentionable events in the past that do not make communists proud. So no one really knows what happened. If you are interested, you might want to read Orwell's 1984, he described extreme case of such a world view.

pessimizer 9y ago
> But the past is not so certain, because the past is under control of the government, and the past undego changes sometimes. The past has its blank spots, there are some unmentionable events in the past that do not make communists proud. So no one really knows what happened. Communists don't have anything resembling a monopoly on this.
kunimu 9y ago
Communism is not a 'utopia' in the sense that everyone is happy all the time. It aims simply to do away with certain problems, just as public health services don't do away with every problem in your life. Your insinuation that I or any other Communist thinks this way is a strange one, though not unheard of. >you should educate youself better by consuming mass media. Is this not precisely the opposite of mass media? Marxist social critic Herbert Marcuse wrote about how, beacuse Communism is a subversive movement, and indeed the Left, it cannot gain mass media time, because of its nature as subversive; it can only be snuck in under capitalism, as capitalism is willing to accept any ideology for the sake of profit. I would recommend One-Dimensional Man on the topic of what problems Communists have with late capitalist media and production, and the hiding of information. >If you are interested, you might want to read Orwell's 1984 I have; although it's a little funny to see Orwell used to rebut the Communist project, seeing as he was a Socialist himself who fought on the side of anarchists in Spain, there's a deeper point here that you are missing. Orwell wrote about very obvious misdirection - "war is peace", "peace is war". However, you are missing the fact that it is not this easy to see. Nowadays, as I am sure you know, the contradiction and control is hidden not in the sentence but within the noun. In words such as "freedom", "democracy", "control", etc. the actual meaning can be discerned only by the speaker of the word and the historical time period. Please read Marcuse on this topic. I don't know where you're getting the idea that I'm in favour of rewriting the past from.
- wolf550e 9y ago
  'ordu answered as a person who has lived under communism. By "mass media" 'ordu meant "pravda". 'ordu is 100% correct about the communism as it was practiced in the 20th century. You are a theoretical marxist who has never seen what communism is like in practice. You would just say about every attempt to build communism that failed (which is all of them) that it was not real communism.
  - kunimu 9y ago
    I don't deny that he or she may be correct about how Communism was practiced. In fact, Marcuse doesn't deny this either and describes the Soviet model as just as much of an issue in terms of rationality and consumption as Western capitalism. However, while Marcuse is a pessimist I consider myself an optimist, along with Zizek and Alain Badiou and Negri on the Communist Idea in general. I don't think the errors of the 20th century's Communsit movements should be repeated, and it's our job to look for what these problems were and how to effect qualitative rather than merely quantitative change in them. I'm generally a skeptic of Marxism-Leninism and the idea of an elite group of educators to teach the masses.
- ordu 9y ago
  > Is this not precisely the opposite of mass media? Under all existing or existed communist government mass media brings The Truth, the government's interpretation of events. If you live here you should know this interpretation, or you risk to show political illiteracy and to be critisized for that. It can damage your career, or you will be forced to attend to courses of political literacy, or both. I believe it didn't work for blue collars, they had more freedom in this sense, but for white collar political illiteracy was a real threat. It was like now in USA with microagression of white males (as I see it from other side of ocean): if you catched on some sort aggression at female, you could be fired and get a "wolf ticket" (in short, it is markings in papers that does not allow to find white collar job), or attend to some sort of training, bring public apoligies, and so on. > Nowadays, as I am sure you know, the contradiction and control is hidden not in the sentence... Are you trying to persuade me that USSR was not as bad as it seems from USA? I know that. And USA is not as bad as it seemed from USSR. But I have no intentions to discuss it here. It is a contraversial topic, and it is like swamp: you step there and cannot get out of it. Moreover I see no point in discussing: there is no USSR now. Was it bad, or not so bad -- it does not matter now. > I don't know where you're getting the idea that I'm in favour of rewriting the past from. Not you, but all communist states I know about.

by ordu 9y ago

pessimizer 9y ago

> But the past is not so certain, because the past is under control of the government, and the past undego changes sometimes. The past has its blank spots, there are some unmentionable events in the past that do not make communists proud. So no one really knows what happened. Communists don't have anything resembling a monopoly on this.

kunimu 9y ago

Communism is not a 'utopia' in the sense that everyone is happy all the time. It aims simply to do away with certain problems, just as public health services don't do away with every problem in your life. Your insinuation that I or any other Communist thinks this way is a strange one, though not unheard of. >you should educate youself better by consuming mass media. Is this not precisely the opposite of mass media? Marxist social critic Herbert Marcuse wrote about how, beacuse Communism is a subversive movement, and indeed the Left, it cannot gain mass media time, because of its nature as subversive; it can only be snuck in under capitalism, as capitalism is willing to accept any ideology for the sake of profit. I would recommend One-Dimensional Man on the topic of what problems Communists have with late capitalist media and production, and the hiding of information. >If you are interested, you might want to read Orwell's 1984 I have; although it's a little funny to see Orwell used to rebut the Communist project, seeing as he was a Socialist himself who fought on the side of anarchists in Spain, there's a deeper point here that you are missing. Orwell wrote about very obvious misdirection - "war is peace", "peace is war". However, you are missing the fact that it is not this easy to see. Nowadays, as I am sure you know, the contradiction and control is hidden not in the sentence but within the noun. In words such as "freedom", "democracy", "control", etc. the actual meaning can be discerned only by the speaker of the word and the historical time period. Please read Marcuse on this topic. I don't know where you're getting the idea that I'm in favour of rewriting the past from.

wolf550e 9y ago
'ordu answered as a person who has lived under communism. By "mass media" 'ordu meant "pravda". 'ordu is 100% correct about the communism as it was practiced in the 20th century. You are a theoretical marxist who has never seen what communism is like in practice. You would just say about every attempt to build communism that failed (which is all of them) that it was not real communism.
- kunimu 9y ago
  I don't deny that he or she may be correct about how Communism was practiced. In fact, Marcuse doesn't deny this either and describes the Soviet model as just as much of an issue in terms of rationality and consumption as Western capitalism. However, while Marcuse is a pessimist I consider myself an optimist, along with Zizek and Alain Badiou and Negri on the Communist Idea in general. I don't think the errors of the 20th century's Communsit movements should be repeated, and it's our job to look for what these problems were and how to effect qualitative rather than merely quantitative change in them. I'm generally a skeptic of Marxism-Leninism and the idea of an elite group of educators to teach the masses.
ordu 9y ago
> Is this not precisely the opposite of mass media? Under all existing or existed communist government mass media brings The Truth, the government's interpretation of events. If you live here you should know this interpretation, or you risk to show political illiteracy and to be critisized for that. It can damage your career, or you will be forced to attend to courses of political literacy, or both. I believe it didn't work for blue collars, they had more freedom in this sense, but for white collar political illiteracy was a real threat. It was like now in USA with microagression of white males (as I see it from other side of ocean): if you catched on some sort aggression at female, you could be fired and get a "wolf ticket" (in short, it is markings in papers that does not allow to find white collar job), or attend to some sort of training, bring public apoligies, and so on. > Nowadays, as I am sure you know, the contradiction and control is hidden not in the sentence... Are you trying to persuade me that USSR was not as bad as it seems from USA? I know that. And USA is not as bad as it seemed from USSR. But I have no intentions to discuss it here. It is a contraversial topic, and it is like swamp: you step there and cannot get out of it. Moreover I see no point in discussing: there is no USSR now. Was it bad, or not so bad -- it does not matter now. > I don't know where you're getting the idea that I'm in favour of rewriting the past from. Not you, but all communist states I know about.