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>I don't buy a lifestyle from them, I buy fucking good milk from animals that are loved like family, and I'm proud to be helping them make a living doing someth

>I don't buy a lifestyle from them, I buy fucking good milk from animals that are loved like family, and I'm proud to be helping them make a living doing something that is good for everyone(including the cows). It's not a lifestyle, it's just supporting people who aren't shitting on everyone's future. The things you say here seem like you are ABSOLUTELY buying a lifestyle here. ie. values for how animals should be treated, values for supporting families and values for "not shitting on everyones future" are very much lifestyle choices imo.

eitland 9y ago
Partially agree. 2 things though: - taste. The difference is real - and while I think this is a lifestyle thing I'd say that word has different connotations
dsff56 9y ago
I think you are wrong here as you are mistaking lifestyle with principles and ideals. Lifestyle is something very different than principles and ideals. Strange that you don't see the difference...
- freeflight 9y ago
  > Lifestyle is something very different than principles and ideals. Are you leading a lifestyle that goes contrary to your ideals and principles? Isn't that a rather depressing and dishonest way to live? Why would you want to live like that? Sure, not everybody can "afford" to live by the ideals/principles they ascribed to, depending on what these might be, but that's not a choice by those people, it's a choice made for them by their circumstances. If they had an actual free choice, I'm pretty certain the vast majority of people would prefer a lifestyle matching their principles and ideals, instead of being stuck in a place where they have to throw their principles and ideals overboard just to get along. > Strange that you don't see the difference. Even stranger that you didn't try to explain that difference, which leaves the rest of us wondering what you are actually trying to allude to.
  - ryguytilidie 9y ago
    "Even stranger that you didn't try to explain that difference, which leaves the rest of us wondering what you are actually trying to allude to." I've found that many people now seem to prefer 'ill just be snarky to my fellow man with zero content whatsoever' as their primary means of communication unfortunately. :(
ghostbrainalpha 9y ago
I think he means that he is buying "the cow's lifestyle", instead of his. I applaud the sentiment, but do small farm cows, loved like they are part of the family actually do less damage to the environment? Is factory farming doing something that makes factory cows produce more methane? I also disagree he is not buying a lifestyle for himself. Non pasteurized milk is ABSOLUTELY better tasting. So he is purchasing a luxury item, which is the definition of lifestyle buying. It may be ethical, and but its still tasty.
- randomstudent 9y ago
  You might also find yourself buying tuberculosis with your milk, but that's your choice.
- ryguytilidie 9y ago
  'I applaud the sentiment, but do small farm cows, loved like they are part of the family actually do less damage to the environment? Is factory farming doing something that makes factory cows produce more methane?' Why does it matter? If both methods do equal damage to the environment and one doesnt torture animals, I still see the one that doesnt torture animals as superior.
- tbihl 9y ago
  "Is factory farming doing something that makes factory cows produce more methane?" Unequivocally yes,by increasing the number of cows as a result of their being more affordable.
Spooky23 9y ago
"Lifestyle choice" implies a frivolous or even capricious choice in many contexts. Personally, the notion that we're taking a chicken raised in conditions "bad" for the chicken and for the quality of the product is just offensive and bad for everyone in the economic chain, save the big company. In a farming environment managed by a modern day tenant farmer, shipping it to China or some place in South Dakota to be butchered by exploited immigrants, and shipping it back in a cryovac to save $1.50/lb. Or I can pay a little more, an amount that is negligible in my budget, for a bird raised, slaughtered and packed within 50 miles of my home, by farmers who are working for themselves, by a butcher whose work isn't going to debilitate him and leave him in poverty later, and a retailer in my city who is a part of my community. This is one of these areas where I agree with the conservative ideal of markets picking winners and losers, which never works out in practice. When you consider how we destroyed regional vegetable industries by having the government spend billions to turn the California desert into an eden of industrial agriculture, or how we allowed nasty people to transform cattle ranching and butchering from solid middle class professions to a feudal/industrial nightmare with trillions of externalized costs, it's just awful. It's not how the market should work.
- thevardanian 9y ago
  Buuuut Ethics is a lifestyle choice...
jacobr 9y ago
If you believe that consumers are rational actors in a free market you indeed need to rationalise behaviour like "not buying the cheapest/best possible thing". If your theory cannot explain a behaviour you can add an imaginary product called "lifestyle" to the equation and stick with your flawed theory.

eitland 9y ago

Partially agree. 2 things though: - taste. The difference is real - and while I think this is a lifestyle thing I'd say that word has different connotations

dsff56 9y ago

I think you are wrong here as you are mistaking lifestyle with principles and ideals. Lifestyle is something very different than principles and ideals. Strange that you don't see the difference...

freeflight 9y ago
> Lifestyle is something very different than principles and ideals. Are you leading a lifestyle that goes contrary to your ideals and principles? Isn't that a rather depressing and dishonest way to live? Why would you want to live like that? Sure, not everybody can "afford" to live by the ideals/principles they ascribed to, depending on what these might be, but that's not a choice by those people, it's a choice made for them by their circumstances. If they had an actual free choice, I'm pretty certain the vast majority of people would prefer a lifestyle matching their principles and ideals, instead of being stuck in a place where they have to throw their principles and ideals overboard just to get along. > Strange that you don't see the difference. Even stranger that you didn't try to explain that difference, which leaves the rest of us wondering what you are actually trying to allude to.
- ryguytilidie 9y ago
  "Even stranger that you didn't try to explain that difference, which leaves the rest of us wondering what you are actually trying to allude to." I've found that many people now seem to prefer 'ill just be snarky to my fellow man with zero content whatsoever' as their primary means of communication unfortunately. :(

ghostbrainalpha 9y ago

I think he means that he is buying "the cow's lifestyle", instead of his. I applaud the sentiment, but do small farm cows, loved like they are part of the family actually do less damage to the environment? Is factory farming doing something that makes factory cows produce more methane? I also disagree he is not buying a lifestyle for himself. Non pasteurized milk is ABSOLUTELY better tasting. So he is purchasing a luxury item, which is the definition of lifestyle buying. It may be ethical, and but its still tasty.

randomstudent 9y ago
You might also find yourself buying tuberculosis with your milk, but that's your choice.
ryguytilidie 9y ago
'I applaud the sentiment, but do small farm cows, loved like they are part of the family actually do less damage to the environment? Is factory farming doing something that makes factory cows produce more methane?' Why does it matter? If both methods do equal damage to the environment and one doesnt torture animals, I still see the one that doesnt torture animals as superior.
tbihl 9y ago
"Is factory farming doing something that makes factory cows produce more methane?" Unequivocally yes,by increasing the number of cows as a result of their being more affordable.

Spooky23 9y ago

"Lifestyle choice" implies a frivolous or even capricious choice in many contexts. Personally, the notion that we're taking a chicken raised in conditions "bad" for the chicken and for the quality of the product is just offensive and bad for everyone in the economic chain, save the big company. In a farming environment managed by a modern day tenant farmer, shipping it to China or some place in South Dakota to be butchered by exploited immigrants, and shipping it back in a cryovac to save $1.50/lb. Or I can pay a little more, an amount that is negligible in my budget, for a bird raised, slaughtered and packed within 50 miles of my home, by farmers who are working for themselves, by a butcher whose work isn't going to debilitate him and leave him in poverty later, and a retailer in my city who is a part of my community. This is one of these areas where I agree with the conservative ideal of markets picking winners and losers, which never works out in practice. When you consider how we destroyed regional vegetable industries by having the government spend billions to turn the California desert into an eden of industrial agriculture, or how we allowed nasty people to transform cattle ranching and butchering from solid middle class professions to a feudal/industrial nightmare with trillions of externalized costs, it's just awful. It's not how the market should work.

thevardanian 9y ago
Buuuut Ethics is a lifestyle choice...

jacobr 9y ago

If you believe that consumers are rational actors in a free market you indeed need to rationalise behaviour like "not buying the cheapest/best possible thing". If your theory cannot explain a behaviour you can add an imaginary product called "lifestyle" to the equation and stick with your flawed theory.