13 ms·

I pay ten dollars a gallon for fresh non pasteurized milk from a local family that has seven cows. I don't buy a lifestyle from them, I buy fucking good milk fr

I pay ten dollars a gallon for fresh non pasteurized milk from a local family that has seven cows. I don't buy a lifestyle from them, I buy fucking good milk from animals that are loved like family, and I'm proud to be helping them make a living doing something that is good for everyone(including the cows). It's not a lifestyle, it's just supporting people who aren't shitting on everyone's future.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
tested23 9y ago
Keep telling yourself that
- sctb 9y ago
  You've been posting only comments that break the guidelines. Could you please stop? We ban accounts that continue like this. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
nilkn 9y ago
> it's just supporting people who aren't shitting on everyone's future. If all dairy cows were treated exactly the same as the cows you're getting milk from, would milk be sufficiently plentiful and affordable for everyone to be able to get milk? If you really want something that's better for cows and the environment, why not just drink soy milk (or any of a pretty big variety of milk that doesn't come from cows)?
- shiven 9y ago
  And what happens to cows, as a species, a few decades from now?
  - nilkn 9y ago
    I don't fully understand what you're asking. Could you clarify? Are you suggesting they might go extinct? Or something else?
    - reificator 9y ago
      Not the above poster, but relevant SMBC: https://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=3105 https://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=3105
      - j1elo 9y ago
        I can see how that mom in the comic would be a supporter of bullfighting - they tend to use similar justifications around the idea that, if it wasn't because the bull was raised and taken care (to ultimatelly be killed in the sports), it wouldn't have existed at all. I say that's BS, if you ask me.
    - shiven 9y ago
      There is more than one question I am asking - (1). Is there any scientifically sound study proving that the quality of protein from plant sources is equivalent to or better than from dairy products? (2). Is there any reproducible, quantitative data on leaving milk producing cows to fend for themselves vs caring for them in small -to- mid size "cow caring" setups (farms, one-cow ops etc.)? I ask this because both my maternal and paternal grandparents had 1 to 3 milk producing cows at any given point in time - from what I recall, they were well cared for (food, medicine, weather etc.) (3). If we, as a species, were to stop consuming dairy products today, or cut consumption by, say 90% over the next year, what would become of the current cow population? How is that better than the current situation for the animals? I am personally, utterly and deeply biased towards the survive-and-let-survive school of life --- so take what I say colored by my very, very, un-apologetically biased PoV.
      - Lon7 9y ago
        If you are interested in these questions I think it will be worth it to spend some time and do a bit of research, no? You can look up Peter Singer and Yuval Noah Harari to start with and read what they have written about this. I mention them because they write well and mainly stick to scientifically supported ideas. I haven't decided where I stand on the issues yet, but with a little research it has become apparent that you can have a very healthy diet without any protein form animals. I've also discovered that more and more philosophers, ethicists, biologists etc, are starting to make the argument that our factory farming of animals may be the the worst crime in human history.
- hashkb 9y ago
  Is everyone supposed to be able to buy gallons of milk and pounds of meat with the money they ear from less than a day's work? What's right? Who decides?
  - nilkn 9y ago
    I don't see how it's controversial to say that we should strive for a world and economy where people can easily afford healthy food for themselves. I already suggested that the best route is probably to avoid cows altogether for this, and I didn't say anything about pounds of meat.
    - earlyriser 9y ago
      I have the feeling that this is controversial because it plays with guilt feelings and people, in general, don't want to be the bad guys and rationalize bad decisions polarizing the opposite field. This is reflected in the vegan cliché.
      - kaybe 9y ago
        It might go deeper. Many societies are not that far away from hunger and poverty in the past. I can see memories of hunger and war in our collective behaviour and also shaping my family, and wealth including being able to afford to eat whatever whenever cushions that a bit. In Europe, the grandparent generation that grew up with the war and the following hunger years is still alive.
vanjoe 9y ago
Is that legal? In Canada I'm not sure your allowed to sell unpasteurised milk.
- wil421 9y ago
  Similar laws in the US, some places in my state label it as something not to be consumed by humans to get around the laws. I forget what the labels say exactly. People forget we pasteurize for a reason.
  - walshemj 9y ago
    you don't have the eqvielent of green top milk like we have in the UK ie a herd that has much stricter regulation and testing?
    - justincormack 9y ago
      In the UK you can only buy unpasteurised milk direct from a farm, not from a shop.
- scruple 9y ago
  The answer is it depends and it's complicated, as raw milk is actually fairly highly regulated. The FDA has laws that prohibit the sale of raw milk across state borders. State laws vary, obviously. In some states it is legal and can be found in stores on shelves, in some states it is legal and can only be sold on the farm, and in some states it is illegal to sell. And, of course, those state laws can be superseded by local laws. You really have to put a little effort in to reading the local and state regulations in each area to sort it out. I feel that if I was going to buy raw milk from a very small scale operation that I would want to personally see their operation. You have to ensure that the farmers milking are really paying attention to what they're doing. I've had some particularly nasty food poisoning in my life, one instance of which landed me in the ER and had me on a quasi quarantine watch by the county CDC, in fact, and so I don't really play around with my food too much. Milk is a tough one because a healthy cow can become a sick cow overnight. It's also made more challenging by the daily goings-ons with the milking process. Having said all of that, my wife and I buy raw milk from a mid-scale creamery in Los Angeles, near where my wife grew up, whenever we are in the area. I've never really had much concern over it, because this creamery has been in operation for many decades and is quite reputable, but we are also well aware of the risk.
ryguytilidie 9y ago
>I don't buy a lifestyle from them, I buy fucking good milk from animals that are loved like family, and I'm proud to be helping them make a living doing something that is good for everyone(including the cows). It's not a lifestyle, it's just supporting people who aren't shitting on everyone's future. The things you say here seem like you are ABSOLUTELY buying a lifestyle here. ie. values for how animals should be treated, values for supporting families and values for "not shitting on everyones future" are very much lifestyle choices imo.
- eitland 9y ago
  Partially agree. 2 things though: - taste. The difference is real - and while I think this is a lifestyle thing I'd say that word has different connotations
- dsff56 9y ago
  I think you are wrong here as you are mistaking lifestyle with principles and ideals. Lifestyle is something very different than principles and ideals. Strange that you don't see the difference...
  - freeflight 9y ago
    > Lifestyle is something very different than principles and ideals. Are you leading a lifestyle that goes contrary to your ideals and principles? Isn't that a rather depressing and dishonest way to live? Why would you want to live like that? Sure, not everybody can "afford" to live by the ideals/principles they ascribed to, depending on what these might be, but that's not a choice by those people, it's a choice made for them by their circumstances. If they had an actual free choice, I'm pretty certain the vast majority of people would prefer a lifestyle matching their principles and ideals, instead of being stuck in a place where they have to throw their principles and ideals overboard just to get along. > Strange that you don't see the difference. Even stranger that you didn't try to explain that difference, which leaves the rest of us wondering what you are actually trying to allude to.
    - 9y ago
nabla9 9y ago
Lifestyle is your interests, opinions, and behaviour. Words you are using: proud , helping, doing good, supporting. These are all values that form the basis for your lifestyle. ps. non-pasteurized milk aka raw milk is not healthier and it's less safe. It's organic-natural consumer fad.
- eru 9y ago
  Might tastes different / better though? I do know that I like non-homogenized milk better. (But that's a different process.)
- tluyben2 9y ago
  To me it tastes better; maybe it's what i'm used to but I find pasteurized milk quite horrible. Maybe it's just taste and other people love the taste of pasteurized. Never met those people, but that says nothing either. Raw milk cheese is also a lot nicer in my opinion.
  - sumedh 9y ago
    Have you done a blind test, if not whatever you are saying is meaningless
    - free_everybody 9y ago
      Why are you calling a random person's milk preferences meaningless? They just like raw milk. It's not a big deal. I like pink lady apples. Do I need to do a blind test to confirm that? No, I don't.
      - sumedh 9y ago
        I gave you the reason why I am calling it meaningless. What part did you not understand. > Do I need to do a blind test to confirm that? Why not, go ahead, you might be surprised with the result.
    - tluyben2 9y ago
astura 9y ago
You say you don't buy for lifestyle reasons but then go on to describe lifestyle reasons for your purchase: "animals that are loved like family" "helping [small farmers] make a living doing something that is good for everyone" "supporting people who aren't shitting on everyone's future." These are all lifestyle choices. You make your purchase not just because of the product but because of your identity, feelings, and values. If there were an identical product produced by a big company using factory farming methods it would be less appealing to you. That's not a bad thing and I don't make a judgment about it, everyone has lifestyle reasons for some of their purchases, it's just a fact. Just like how probably half (or more) of the beer I consume is from the brewery down the street. If they are releasing a new beer I'm going to be there, either on release day or the day after if I'm busy. This is not only because the beer is good, the prices are on par with similar beers, and the location convenient but: -I like supporting local independently owned business. I believe that to be virtuous in and of itself. -The owners and staff are really nice and they all know me by name. -The owners and brewer take time to come up front and say hi and chat when they see me. We talk about what's new in life. -Their presence helps keep my property value high and my neighborhood characteristic. My purchase makes me feel good and feel like I'm helping a friend out rather than just consuming a product I enjoy. If those lifestyle factors weren't there I'd probably vary my purchases more and buy their beer only a couple times a year.
- ShabbosGoy 9y ago
  > These are all lifestyle choices. You make your purchase not just because of the product but because of your identity, feelings, and values. I think it's the other way around. A product can have such good marketing that it gives the illusion of identity, feelings, and values - for example, fair trade coffee.
  - astura 9y ago
    So what? That's irrelevant, it doesn't matter. The purchase is still made at least partly because of the purchaser's identity, feelings, and values. It doesn't matter if the traits in question are all marketing or objective.
  - 9y ago
eitland 9y ago
As someone who grew up on a farm: yes, there is a real difference in taste between fresh milk and processed milk. IIRC My dad told me it was more about the homogenization part than a the pasteurization part (which is good because it means you can get milk that tastes well totally without risk.) That said: I'd drink fresh unprocessed milk again without hesitation as long as I know the farmer.
- icebraining 9y ago
  As someone who spent his summers getting fresh milk (often still warm) from a nearby farm, and pasteurized milk the rest of the year, I can't say I ever tasted much of a difference.
jkoll 9y ago
That's a lifestyle.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
danmaz74 9y ago
"Buying a lifestyle" sounds bad because it's associated with big brands for which that's just a marketing tactic, and where the lifestyle is artificial. But you're actually - and proudly - supporting an authentic lifestyle, there's nothing bad in that.
Spooky23 9y ago
Amen, brother. I pay $5/gallon for a family farm to deliver milk to my house, and have been since 2006. People think that we're nuts for doing this, then they have the milk or the yogurt I make with it. It's helped my in my efforts to lose weight an improve my family's health. When you pay more for better product, whether it be milk or chicken or beef or vegetables, you eat less and utilize it more. Instead of seeking bulk, we chase flavor and quality.
- goialoq 9y ago
  > When you pay more for better product, whether it be milk or chicken or beef or vegetables, you eat less and utilize it more. That strategy works equally well for any product, not just "better" product.
  - icebraining 9y ago
    The problem is identifying the better products. Price alone doesn't work.
  - Spooky23 9y ago
    In my case, I'll go for volume if satisfaction with the product isn't there.
goialoq 9y ago
How is it good for the cows? If you want cows that are "loved like family", then please explain how milking a cow is worse than a human woman getting (well, being forced into) a job as a milk producer? (Which goes far beyond "wet nursing" in terms of milk production) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_nurse#/media/File:Wet_Nurse.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_nurse#/media/File:Wet_Nurs...
- why15characters 9y ago
  > then please explain how milking a cow is worse than a human woman getting (well, being forced into) a job as a milk producer? It isn't about the cow, it is about the babies those cows must have to be able to lactate. They are chained up or crated and then killed.
X86BSD 9y ago
Reading most of the replies here reminds me the gun debate. It’s one side that has experience with said subject and the other side that has zero. And they argue. Some posters don’t believe there is any difference between eggs from a small farm where the chickens roam the yard eating naturally and Tyson sized operations where they are all cooped in a mountain together. Ethics of the two approaches aside I grew up in a small farm town in Kansas. I’ve eaten eggs straight out of the chicken my entire life. They not only taste better they last longer too. I can take freshly laid eggs and put them in a dark coolish place like my basement on a shelf and they will last well over a month. Do that with store bought eggs. I dare you Another example is raw milk. If you’ve ever had raw milk and then bought store bought milk it’s shocking how different in taste, mouth feel, and richness there is. Raw milk is flavorful, slightly off white from the grass diet, rich from a lot of cream and if you compare that to milk at the store which is watery, chalk colored, sweetened with sugar, and lacks any cream. It’s night and day. One is healthy for you the other is watered down, profit maximized chalk water. There is a big difference in veg as well. So for those posters to say there is no real difference clearly have never eaten on a farm. There is a noticeable and large difference in quality, taste, smell, longevity, and nutrition between small farm non gmo and organic produce and dairy and store bought garbage.
- phil21 9y ago
  > can take freshly laid eggs and put them in a dark coolish place like my basement on a shelf and they will last well over a month. Do that with store bought eggs. I dare you The only reason this is true is that commercial eggs in the US are typically washed, which removes the protective impermeable membrane that both covers the egg and makes it look a little icky. In many jurisdictions is is a legal requirement. In Europe/pretty much anywhere else in the world there are stacks of factory produced eggs sitting out on the floor/counter. Anywhere else in the world would take your dare any time since that's exactly what they currently do :) > There is a big difference in veg as well. So for those posters to say there is no real difference clearly have never eaten on a farm. Grew up on/around farms as well. My parents are organic vegetable farmers. Blind taste tests prove the difference is highly variable. Some items (tomatoes in particular) are quite obvious, other items you can tell no difference.
- 9y ago
perl4ever 9y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brucellosis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brucellosis
jsemrau 9y ago
I'm with you. My family in Japan is living extremely countryside. Most of the immediate friends are farmers for generations. So we get access to fresh eggs, strawberries, blueberries, onions, and milk on a quality level that is off the charts. Their products never end up in supermarkets. Still they exist. Is it a lifestyle choice? It yes, it is not an active one.
syedkarim 9y ago
>>animals that are loved like family What about the calves that are taken away from their mothers (and mothers that have their calves taken from them) for that fucking good milk?

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

tested23 9y ago

Keep telling yourself that

sctb 9y ago
You've been posting only comments that break the guidelines. Could you please stop? We ban accounts that continue like this. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

nilkn 9y ago

> it's just supporting people who aren't shitting on everyone's future. If all dairy cows were treated exactly the same as the cows you're getting milk from, would milk be sufficiently plentiful and affordable for everyone to be able to get milk? If you really want something that's better for cows and the environment, why not just drink soy milk (or any of a pretty big variety of milk that doesn't come from cows)?

shiven 9y ago
And what happens to cows, as a species, a few decades from now?
- nilkn 9y ago
  I don't fully understand what you're asking. Could you clarify? Are you suggesting they might go extinct? Or something else?
  - reificator 9y ago
    Not the above poster, but relevant SMBC: https://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=3105 https://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=3105
    - j1elo 9y ago
      I can see how that mom in the comic would be a supporter of bullfighting - they tend to use similar justifications around the idea that, if it wasn't because the bull was raised and taken care (to ultimatelly be killed in the sports), it wouldn't have existed at all. I say that's BS, if you ask me.
  - shiven 9y ago
    There is more than one question I am asking - (1). Is there any scientifically sound study proving that the quality of protein from plant sources is equivalent to or better than from dairy products? (2). Is there any reproducible, quantitative data on leaving milk producing cows to fend for themselves vs caring for them in small -to- mid size "cow caring" setups (farms, one-cow ops etc.)? I ask this because both my maternal and paternal grandparents had 1 to 3 milk producing cows at any given point in time - from what I recall, they were well cared for (food, medicine, weather etc.) (3). If we, as a species, were to stop consuming dairy products today, or cut consumption by, say 90% over the next year, what would become of the current cow population? How is that better than the current situation for the animals? I am personally, utterly and deeply biased towards the survive-and-let-survive school of life --- so take what I say colored by my very, very, un-apologetically biased PoV.
    - Lon7 9y ago
      If you are interested in these questions I think it will be worth it to spend some time and do a bit of research, no? You can look up Peter Singer and Yuval Noah Harari to start with and read what they have written about this. I mention them because they write well and mainly stick to scientifically supported ideas. I haven't decided where I stand on the issues yet, but with a little research it has become apparent that you can have a very healthy diet without any protein form animals. I've also discovered that more and more philosophers, ethicists, biologists etc, are starting to make the argument that our factory farming of animals may be the the worst crime in human history.
hashkb 9y ago
Is everyone supposed to be able to buy gallons of milk and pounds of meat with the money they ear from less than a day's work? What's right? Who decides?
- nilkn 9y ago
  I don't see how it's controversial to say that we should strive for a world and economy where people can easily afford healthy food for themselves. I already suggested that the best route is probably to avoid cows altogether for this, and I didn't say anything about pounds of meat.
  - earlyriser 9y ago
    I have the feeling that this is controversial because it plays with guilt feelings and people, in general, don't want to be the bad guys and rationalize bad decisions polarizing the opposite field. This is reflected in the vegan cliché.
    - kaybe 9y ago
      It might go deeper. Many societies are not that far away from hunger and poverty in the past. I can see memories of hunger and war in our collective behaviour and also shaping my family, and wealth including being able to afford to eat whatever whenever cushions that a bit. In Europe, the grandparent generation that grew up with the war and the following hunger years is still alive.

vanjoe 9y ago

Is that legal? In Canada I'm not sure your allowed to sell unpasteurised milk.

wil421 9y ago
Similar laws in the US, some places in my state label it as something not to be consumed by humans to get around the laws. I forget what the labels say exactly. People forget we pasteurize for a reason.
- walshemj 9y ago
  you don't have the eqvielent of green top milk like we have in the UK ie a herd that has much stricter regulation and testing?
  - justincormack 9y ago
    In the UK you can only buy unpasteurised milk direct from a farm, not from a shop.
scruple 9y ago
The answer is it depends and it's complicated, as raw milk is actually fairly highly regulated. The FDA has laws that prohibit the sale of raw milk across state borders. State laws vary, obviously. In some states it is legal and can be found in stores on shelves, in some states it is legal and can only be sold on the farm, and in some states it is illegal to sell. And, of course, those state laws can be superseded by local laws. You really have to put a little effort in to reading the local and state regulations in each area to sort it out. I feel that if I was going to buy raw milk from a very small scale operation that I would want to personally see their operation. You have to ensure that the farmers milking are really paying attention to what they're doing. I've had some particularly nasty food poisoning in my life, one instance of which landed me in the ER and had me on a quasi quarantine watch by the county CDC, in fact, and so I don't really play around with my food too much. Milk is a tough one because a healthy cow can become a sick cow overnight. It's also made more challenging by the daily goings-ons with the milking process. Having said all of that, my wife and I buy raw milk from a mid-scale creamery in Los Angeles, near where my wife grew up, whenever we are in the area. I've never really had much concern over it, because this creamery has been in operation for many decades and is quite reputable, but we are also well aware of the risk.

ryguytilidie 9y ago

>I don't buy a lifestyle from them, I buy fucking good milk from animals that are loved like family, and I'm proud to be helping them make a living doing something that is good for everyone(including the cows). It's not a lifestyle, it's just supporting people who aren't shitting on everyone's future. The things you say here seem like you are ABSOLUTELY buying a lifestyle here. ie. values for how animals should be treated, values for supporting families and values for "not shitting on everyones future" are very much lifestyle choices imo.

eitland 9y ago
Partially agree. 2 things though: - taste. The difference is real - and while I think this is a lifestyle thing I'd say that word has different connotations
dsff56 9y ago
I think you are wrong here as you are mistaking lifestyle with principles and ideals. Lifestyle is something very different than principles and ideals. Strange that you don't see the difference...
- freeflight 9y ago
  > Lifestyle is something very different than principles and ideals. Are you leading a lifestyle that goes contrary to your ideals and principles? Isn't that a rather depressing and dishonest way to live? Why would you want to live like that? Sure, not everybody can "afford" to live by the ideals/principles they ascribed to, depending on what these might be, but that's not a choice by those people, it's a choice made for them by their circumstances. If they had an actual free choice, I'm pretty certain the vast majority of people would prefer a lifestyle matching their principles and ideals, instead of being stuck in a place where they have to throw their principles and ideals overboard just to get along. > Strange that you don't see the difference. Even stranger that you didn't try to explain that difference, which leaves the rest of us wondering what you are actually trying to allude to.
  - 9y ago

nabla9 9y ago

Lifestyle is your interests, opinions, and behaviour. Words you are using: proud , helping, doing good, supporting. These are all values that form the basis for your lifestyle. ps. non-pasteurized milk aka raw milk is not healthier and it's less safe. It's organic-natural consumer fad.

eru 9y ago
Might tastes different / better though? I do know that I like non-homogenized milk better. (But that's a different process.)
tluyben2 9y ago
To me it tastes better; maybe it's what i'm used to but I find pasteurized milk quite horrible. Maybe it's just taste and other people love the taste of pasteurized. Never met those people, but that says nothing either. Raw milk cheese is also a lot nicer in my opinion.
- sumedh 9y ago
  Have you done a blind test, if not whatever you are saying is meaningless
  - free_everybody 9y ago
    Why are you calling a random person's milk preferences meaningless? They just like raw milk. It's not a big deal. I like pink lady apples. Do I need to do a blind test to confirm that? No, I don't.
    - sumedh 9y ago
      I gave you the reason why I am calling it meaningless. What part did you not understand. > Do I need to do a blind test to confirm that? Why not, go ahead, you might be surprised with the result.
  - tluyben2 9y ago

astura 9y ago

You say you don't buy for lifestyle reasons but then go on to describe lifestyle reasons for your purchase: "animals that are loved like family" "helping [small farmers] make a living doing something that is good for everyone" "supporting people who aren't shitting on everyone's future." These are all lifestyle choices. You make your purchase not just because of the product but because of your identity, feelings, and values. If there were an identical product produced by a big company using factory farming methods it would be less appealing to you. That's not a bad thing and I don't make a judgment about it, everyone has lifestyle reasons for some of their purchases, it's just a fact. Just like how probably half (or more) of the beer I consume is from the brewery down the street. If they are releasing a new beer I'm going to be there, either on release day or the day after if I'm busy. This is not only because the beer is good, the prices are on par with similar beers, and the location convenient but: -I like supporting local independently owned business. I believe that to be virtuous in and of itself. -The owners and staff are really nice and they all know me by name. -The owners and brewer take time to come up front and say hi and chat when they see me. We talk about what's new in life. -Their presence helps keep my property value high and my neighborhood characteristic. My purchase makes me feel good and feel like I'm helping a friend out rather than just consuming a product I enjoy. If those lifestyle factors weren't there I'd probably vary my purchases more and buy their beer only a couple times a year.

ShabbosGoy 9y ago
> These are all lifestyle choices. You make your purchase not just because of the product but because of your identity, feelings, and values. I think it's the other way around. A product can have such good marketing that it gives the illusion of identity, feelings, and values - for example, fair trade coffee.
- astura 9y ago
  So what? That's irrelevant, it doesn't matter. The purchase is still made at least partly because of the purchaser's identity, feelings, and values. It doesn't matter if the traits in question are all marketing or objective.
- 9y ago

eitland 9y ago

As someone who grew up on a farm: yes, there is a real difference in taste between fresh milk and processed milk. IIRC My dad told me it was more about the homogenization part than a the pasteurization part (which is good because it means you can get milk that tastes well totally without risk.) That said: I'd drink fresh unprocessed milk again without hesitation as long as I know the farmer.

icebraining 9y ago
As someone who spent his summers getting fresh milk (often still warm) from a nearby farm, and pasteurized milk the rest of the year, I can't say I ever tasted much of a difference.

jkoll 9y ago

That's a lifestyle.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

danmaz74 9y ago

"Buying a lifestyle" sounds bad because it's associated with big brands for which that's just a marketing tactic, and where the lifestyle is artificial. But you're actually - and proudly - supporting an authentic lifestyle, there's nothing bad in that.

Spooky23 9y ago

Amen, brother. I pay $5/gallon for a family farm to deliver milk to my house, and have been since 2006. People think that we're nuts for doing this, then they have the milk or the yogurt I make with it. It's helped my in my efforts to lose weight an improve my family's health. When you pay more for better product, whether it be milk or chicken or beef or vegetables, you eat less and utilize it more. Instead of seeking bulk, we chase flavor and quality.

goialoq 9y ago
> When you pay more for better product, whether it be milk or chicken or beef or vegetables, you eat less and utilize it more. That strategy works equally well for any product, not just "better" product.
- icebraining 9y ago
  The problem is identifying the better products. Price alone doesn't work.
- Spooky23 9y ago
  In my case, I'll go for volume if satisfaction with the product isn't there.

goialoq 9y ago

How is it good for the cows? If you want cows that are "loved like family", then please explain how milking a cow is worse than a human woman getting (well, being forced into) a job as a milk producer? (Which goes far beyond "wet nursing" in terms of milk production) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_nurse#/media/File:Wet_Nurse.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_nurse#/media/File:Wet_Nurs...

why15characters 9y ago
> then please explain how milking a cow is worse than a human woman getting (well, being forced into) a job as a milk producer? It isn't about the cow, it is about the babies those cows must have to be able to lactate. They are chained up or crated and then killed.

X86BSD 9y ago

Reading most of the replies here reminds me the gun debate. It’s one side that has experience with said subject and the other side that has zero. And they argue. Some posters don’t believe there is any difference between eggs from a small farm where the chickens roam the yard eating naturally and Tyson sized operations where they are all cooped in a mountain together. Ethics of the two approaches aside I grew up in a small farm town in Kansas. I’ve eaten eggs straight out of the chicken my entire life. They not only taste better they last longer too. I can take freshly laid eggs and put them in a dark coolish place like my basement on a shelf and they will last well over a month. Do that with store bought eggs. I dare you Another example is raw milk. If you’ve ever had raw milk and then bought store bought milk it’s shocking how different in taste, mouth feel, and richness there is. Raw milk is flavorful, slightly off white from the grass diet, rich from a lot of cream and if you compare that to milk at the store which is watery, chalk colored, sweetened with sugar, and lacks any cream. It’s night and day. One is healthy for you the other is watered down, profit maximized chalk water. There is a big difference in veg as well. So for those posters to say there is no real difference clearly have never eaten on a farm. There is a noticeable and large difference in quality, taste, smell, longevity, and nutrition between small farm non gmo and organic produce and dairy and store bought garbage.

phil21 9y ago
> can take freshly laid eggs and put them in a dark coolish place like my basement on a shelf and they will last well over a month. Do that with store bought eggs. I dare you The only reason this is true is that commercial eggs in the US are typically washed, which removes the protective impermeable membrane that both covers the egg and makes it look a little icky. In many jurisdictions is is a legal requirement. In Europe/pretty much anywhere else in the world there are stacks of factory produced eggs sitting out on the floor/counter. Anywhere else in the world would take your dare any time since that's exactly what they currently do :) > There is a big difference in veg as well. So for those posters to say there is no real difference clearly have never eaten on a farm. Grew up on/around farms as well. My parents are organic vegetable farmers. Blind taste tests prove the difference is highly variable. Some items (tomatoes in particular) are quite obvious, other items you can tell no difference.
9y ago

perl4ever 9y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brucellosis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brucellosis

jsemrau 9y ago

I'm with you. My family in Japan is living extremely countryside. Most of the immediate friends are farmers for generations. So we get access to fresh eggs, strawberries, blueberries, onions, and milk on a quality level that is off the charts. Their products never end up in supermarkets. Still they exist. Is it a lifestyle choice? It yes, it is not an active one.

syedkarim 9y ago

>>animals that are loved like family What about the calves that are taken away from their mothers (and mothers that have their calves taken from them) for that fucking good milk?