5 ms·

No, there are still plenty of people who sincerely believe in a flat Earth, that vaccines are a conspiracy, and that homeopathic "treatments" make them better.

No, there are still plenty of people who sincerely believe in a flat Earth, that vaccines are a conspiracy, and that homeopathic "treatments" make them better. Best to move on and not worry about people who chose not to have evidence-based beliefs.

jonreem 9y ago
The problem is when they start voting based on those beliefs and help elect representatives who then attempt to make policy for all of us based on those beliefs.
- jdavis703 9y ago
  Don't worry, if their beliefs are truly wrong, concrete consequences will start happening and people will see the error of their ways. For example if enough people stop vaccinating their children, common ilnesses will start spreading again and people will clamor for a fix.
  - jonreem 9y ago
    I'm unwilling to be unworried by preventably sick kids who will carry the remnants of a serious illness for the rest of their lives. The consequences can be avoided if we act and talk now.
  - petegrif 9y ago
    My sense of the available evidence of the behavior of social groups with blatantly mistaken beliefs is that many don't 'see the error of their ways.'
  - lostlogin 9y ago
    When you apply this statement to other subjects (eg religion in government) it is rather depressingly incorrect.
    - jdavis703 9y ago
      Well theocratic governments used to be the norm in Western society. Then people realized that things like kings "ordained by God" and other such nonsense wasn't actually good for then. This might have to happen on a multi-generational level, but regardless people eventually realize what's good for them. Lastly when you realize not to worry about people with illogical beliefs, and instead focus on educating those who are either open to information, or already support your beliefs you'll focus your energy on the things that you can actually change. Yelling, worrying or typing "you're wrong" to dogmatic religious adherents, homeopathic healers or conspiracy theorists is not going to change their mind.
- fiatjaf 9y ago
  Do you think they shouldn't force their policy into you, but you can force yours into them? Why is your belief that you are right more entitled to use of force than theirs?
  - DonHopkins 9y ago
    Policy based on science trumps bronze age mythology, so "it depends".
    - fiatjaf 9y ago
      It is not obvious why.
      - DonHopkins 9y ago
        To some. Yet it's still true. Go figure. If you honestly think about your bronze age superstitions enough you will eventually figure out why they can't possibly be true, and aren't even remotely ethical. Many other people, even children, have found the path out of that trap, and you can too, so don't give up hope. It will become obvious eventually.
dankohn1 9y ago
Homeopathic treatments help lots of people. The trick would be to demonstrate that they help people more than a placebo. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo#How_the_Placebo_effect_works https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo#How_the_Placebo_effect...
- whatshisface 9y ago
  The placebo effect is to a large extent due to regression to the mean, i.e. a statistical glitch that has nothing to do with health outcomes. [1]http://www.dcscience.net/2015/12/11/placebo-effects-are-weak-regression-to-the-mean-is-the-main-reason-ineffective-treatments-appear-to-work/ http://www.dcscience.net/2015/12/11/placebo-effects-are-weak... [2]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6369471 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6369471
  - DonHopkins 9y ago
    <spock>Tricorder readings report fascinating regressions.</spock> "Statistical regression to the mean predicts that patients selected for abnormalcy will, on the average, tend to improve. We argue that most improvements attributed to the placebo effect are actually instances of statistical regression." <bones>I'm a doctor, not a faith healer!</bones> "Thus, we urge caution in interpreting patient improvements as causal effects of our actions and should avoid the conceit of assuming that our personal presence has strong healing powers." <kirk>You're a healer, there's a patient. That's an order.</kirk> <scott>Now, you're an engineer!</scott>
  - vorotato 9y ago
    If you don't think patient perception has anything to do with patient wellness then honestly I just hope you're not in medicine.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]

jonreem 9y ago

The problem is when they start voting based on those beliefs and help elect representatives who then attempt to make policy for all of us based on those beliefs.

jdavis703 9y ago
Don't worry, if their beliefs are truly wrong, concrete consequences will start happening and people will see the error of their ways. For example if enough people stop vaccinating their children, common ilnesses will start spreading again and people will clamor for a fix.
- jonreem 9y ago
  I'm unwilling to be unworried by preventably sick kids who will carry the remnants of a serious illness for the rest of their lives. The consequences can be avoided if we act and talk now.
- petegrif 9y ago
  My sense of the available evidence of the behavior of social groups with blatantly mistaken beliefs is that many don't 'see the error of their ways.'
- lostlogin 9y ago
  When you apply this statement to other subjects (eg religion in government) it is rather depressingly incorrect.
  - jdavis703 9y ago
    Well theocratic governments used to be the norm in Western society. Then people realized that things like kings "ordained by God" and other such nonsense wasn't actually good for then. This might have to happen on a multi-generational level, but regardless people eventually realize what's good for them. Lastly when you realize not to worry about people with illogical beliefs, and instead focus on educating those who are either open to information, or already support your beliefs you'll focus your energy on the things that you can actually change. Yelling, worrying or typing "you're wrong" to dogmatic religious adherents, homeopathic healers or conspiracy theorists is not going to change their mind.
fiatjaf 9y ago
Do you think they shouldn't force their policy into you, but you can force yours into them? Why is your belief that you are right more entitled to use of force than theirs?
- DonHopkins 9y ago
  Policy based on science trumps bronze age mythology, so "it depends".
  - fiatjaf 9y ago
    It is not obvious why.
    - DonHopkins 9y ago
      To some. Yet it's still true. Go figure. If you honestly think about your bronze age superstitions enough you will eventually figure out why they can't possibly be true, and aren't even remotely ethical. Many other people, even children, have found the path out of that trap, and you can too, so don't give up hope. It will become obvious eventually.

dankohn1 9y ago

Homeopathic treatments help lots of people. The trick would be to demonstrate that they help people more than a placebo. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo#How_the_Placebo_effect_works https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo#How_the_Placebo_effect...

whatshisface 9y ago
The placebo effect is to a large extent due to regression to the mean, i.e. a statistical glitch that has nothing to do with health outcomes. [1]http://www.dcscience.net/2015/12/11/placebo-effects-are-weak-regression-to-the-mean-is-the-main-reason-ineffective-treatments-appear-to-work/ http://www.dcscience.net/2015/12/11/placebo-effects-are-weak... [2]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6369471 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6369471
- DonHopkins 9y ago
  <spock>Tricorder readings report fascinating regressions.</spock> "Statistical regression to the mean predicts that patients selected for abnormalcy will, on the average, tend to improve. We argue that most improvements attributed to the placebo effect are actually instances of statistical regression." <bones>I'm a doctor, not a faith healer!</bones> "Thus, we urge caution in interpreting patient improvements as causal effects of our actions and should avoid the conceit of assuming that our personal presence has strong healing powers." <kirk>You're a healer, there's a patient. That's an order.</kirk> <scott>Now, you're an engineer!</scott>
- vorotato 9y ago
  If you don't think patient perception has anything to do with patient wellness then honestly I just hope you're not in medicine.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]