4 ms·

I could imagine an astonishingly wealthy person finding they no longer get any enjoyment from buying regular things taking delight in owning a stolen original.

I could imagine an astonishingly wealthy person finding they no longer get any enjoyment from buying regular things taking delight in owning a stolen original. Nobody else has that. If that hypothetical person happens to live in a country where extradition to New Zealand would be impossible, or they have appropriate connections, it might be seen as an acceptable risk. And perhaps in a few generations, the heirs of that wealthy person could sell it on. I don't really know how it works if you discover you've inherited property that was stolen a hundred years ago for example. At what point does it become yours?

microcolonel 9y ago
> At what point does it become yours? At no point does it become yours. I'm pretty sure that, while you can't necessarily prosecute the person currently in possession, you could almost certainly recover the property if you could prove it was stolen from your estate. Added: In most English speaking countries it becomes a crime to willfully possess stolen property as soon as you know that it is stolen. In general, the lack of mens rea in merely possessing stolen goods would make it enough to repatriate the goods, but if that's not enough, most statutes on the matter explicitly state that you must know and wish to unlawfully handle the stolen property.
- LyndsySimon 9y ago
  I wonder if it being an international theft would impact the true owner's ability to recover the work, even if they knew who possessed it?
  - microcolonel 9y ago
    I think most civilized countries would recognize a theft committed in another country as rendering the property stolen property, unless they had some important relationship with the criminal or their heirs. Some countries might be easier to pay off, though (but as a result, also more dangerous places to store valuable goods).
- QAPereo 9y ago
  Receiving stolen property is a crime. Edit: or not in this case, my bad.
  - microcolonel 9y ago
    At least in England, Wales, Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland, the United States of America, and Canada, knowing that the property was stolen or otherwise obtained by crime is an essential element of the crime.
    - QAPereo 9y ago
      If this person is buying art from the unlisted web, if they're not going to be able to prove provenance... what do you think they're going to be able to say? "Oh gee, I knew it was stolen when I went to the "dark web" to buy it, and it's a well-known stolen piece, but I had no idea that I was receiving stolen property!" It's not like buying something from e-bay, and it turns out the seller boosted it from a van; that is not your fault.
      - microcolonel 9y ago
        > If this person is buying art from the unlisted web, if they're not going to be able to prove provenance. I think you may have lost track of the thread here. I was addressing this question posed by gtsteve. > And perhaps in a few generations, the heirs of that wealthy person could sell it on. I don't really know how it works if you discover you've inherited property that was stolen a hundred years ago for example. At what point does it become yours? It is obviously unlawful to traffick knowingly in stolen goods. It is as serious a crime as the theft itself (sans aggravating factors like use of force or intimidation, especially with a deadly weapon).
        QAPereo 9y ago
        I did indeed lose track, thanks for pointing that out so gently.

microcolonel 9y ago

> At what point does it become yours? At no point does it become yours. I'm pretty sure that, while you can't necessarily prosecute the person currently in possession, you could almost certainly recover the property if you could prove it was stolen from your estate. Added: In most English speaking countries it becomes a crime to willfully possess stolen property as soon as you know that it is stolen. In general, the lack of mens rea in merely possessing stolen goods would make it enough to repatriate the goods, but if that's not enough, most statutes on the matter explicitly state that you must know and wish to unlawfully handle the stolen property.

LyndsySimon 9y ago
I wonder if it being an international theft would impact the true owner's ability to recover the work, even if they knew who possessed it?
- microcolonel 9y ago
  I think most civilized countries would recognize a theft committed in another country as rendering the property stolen property, unless they had some important relationship with the criminal or their heirs. Some countries might be easier to pay off, though (but as a result, also more dangerous places to store valuable goods).
QAPereo 9y ago
Receiving stolen property is a crime. Edit: or not in this case, my bad.
- microcolonel 9y ago
  At least in England, Wales, Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland, the United States of America, and Canada, knowing that the property was stolen or otherwise obtained by crime is an essential element of the crime.
  - QAPereo 9y ago
    If this person is buying art from the unlisted web, if they're not going to be able to prove provenance... what do you think they're going to be able to say? "Oh gee, I knew it was stolen when I went to the "dark web" to buy it, and it's a well-known stolen piece, but I had no idea that I was receiving stolen property!" It's not like buying something from e-bay, and it turns out the seller boosted it from a van; that is not your fault.
    - microcolonel 9y ago
      > If this person is buying art from the unlisted web, if they're not going to be able to prove provenance. I think you may have lost track of the thread here. I was addressing this question posed by gtsteve. > And perhaps in a few generations, the heirs of that wealthy person could sell it on. I don't really know how it works if you discover you've inherited property that was stolen a hundred years ago for example. At what point does it become yours? It is obviously unlawful to traffick knowingly in stolen goods. It is as serious a crime as the theft itself (sans aggravating factors like use of force or intimidation, especially with a deadly weapon).
      - QAPereo 9y ago
        I did indeed lose track, thanks for pointing that out so gently.