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> In conclusion, the newly added měilì 美丽 ("beautiful") in the Party constitution is completely unrelated to the abstract ideal of "beauty" of the Platonic or A

> In conclusion, the newly added měilì 美丽 ("beautiful") in the Party constitution is completely unrelated to the abstract ideal of "beauty" of the Platonic or Aristotelian sort. This is a pretty interesting remark, in the eyes of a westerner. Care to comment on it?

paradite 9y ago
Like I said in the edited comment in parent, 美丽 is mostly used to describe physical objects. So it is going to be interpreted as beautiful towns, cities and houses by the general public. And the officials will maybe prioritize some gentrification, renovation projects in alignment to this. I don't know why the author thought so deeply about it. It should be pretty straightforward.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- cristiantincu 9y ago
  > I don't know why the author thought so deep about it. Because “beautiful” is a pretty abstract word. It kinda invites to a debate. Don’t you think?
  - paradite 9y ago
    In both Chinese and English, I feel "beautiful" is as abstract as "rich", and less abstract than "powerful" and "democratic". Maybe you feel differently but that's how I feel.
- tfcata 9y ago
  While I don't agree with that '美丽' does not have anything to do with abstract ideal, I don't agree with you, neither. While 美丽 can be used to describe physical objects, 美丽 in the Constitution does convey a sense of abstract ideal. Because when someone says 'something is 美丽', the statement is already abstract. The statement says nothing about the physical property of the subject, it simply conveys an ideal that may be interpreted differently by each individual. But certainly this ideal won't be of the Platonic or Aristotelian sort. In this context, it simply means a country that 'everyone finds enjoyable living in', which is indeed an ideal. edit: grammar
  - paradite 9y ago
    Since you mentioned "ideal", let me give you an example of "ideal". ＂中国梦＂, literally translated as "the Chinese dream" and a phrase coined by CCP, describes an "ideal" that fits your description. But no, "beautiful" in this context just means prettier physical outlook of buildings. You can't over-interpret it (at least in Chinese).
    - tfcata 9y ago
      I think you only understood part of what it tries to convey. Good aesthetics, yes, part of '美丽'. But I won't say '美丽' stops short at simply say 'we will build our cities to look pleasing', at least I won't expect the Constitution to be so pragmatic, because it serves as an guide on the ideology (sort of).
      - paradite 9y ago
        I think I get what you mean: Because it is the constitution, it must be abstract and serve as guiding principle. However, I beg to differ. Here is the full latest constitution: Chinese: http://www.12371.cn/special/zggcdzc/zggcdzcqw/ http://www.12371.cn/special/zggcdzc/zggcdzcqw/ English: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/download/Constitution_of_the_Communist_Party_of_China.pdf http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/download/Constitution_of_t... As you can see, the paragraph on "beautiful" is just a tiny part of the constitution and the word "beautiful" only appears once throughout the entire constitution. So it is probably not something very "guiding" and "central". Also, the constitution touches on a lot of aspects of the society, so I wouldn't be surprised if it is amended to include a small mention of the "look" of the physical landscape. I would say that the word is added just to make sure that the party keep environmental concerns and "good outlook" in mind while working on all the other tasks.
        tfcata 9y ago
        If the entire Constitution is about concrete matters comparable to 'building good-looking cities', and 'building good-looking cities' is certainly one such matter because it is emphasized in the concluding remark, then why would the word appear only once? I don't believe abruptly inserting a term that's never mentioned is good writing style. A plausible way to understand it is that, the concluding remark is a summarizing call-to-action, laying out the spiritual and ideological framework for the rest to act upon. It certainly needs to be abstract, just as the four words preceding 美丽.
- figurehe4d 9y ago
  Its a western tendency to look for alternate interpretations of speech ("what is this really saying?") contrasted with Chinese style of writing which is typically very literal.

paradite 9y ago

Like I said in the edited comment in parent, 美丽 is mostly used to describe physical objects. So it is going to be interpreted as beautiful towns, cities and houses by the general public. And the officials will maybe prioritize some gentrification, renovation projects in alignment to this. I don't know why the author thought so deeply about it. It should be pretty straightforward.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
cristiantincu 9y ago
> I don't know why the author thought so deep about it. Because “beautiful” is a pretty abstract word. It kinda invites to a debate. Don’t you think?
- paradite 9y ago
  In both Chinese and English, I feel "beautiful" is as abstract as "rich", and less abstract than "powerful" and "democratic". Maybe you feel differently but that's how I feel.
tfcata 9y ago
While I don't agree with that '美丽' does not have anything to do with abstract ideal, I don't agree with you, neither. While 美丽 can be used to describe physical objects, 美丽 in the Constitution does convey a sense of abstract ideal. Because when someone says 'something is 美丽', the statement is already abstract. The statement says nothing about the physical property of the subject, it simply conveys an ideal that may be interpreted differently by each individual. But certainly this ideal won't be of the Platonic or Aristotelian sort. In this context, it simply means a country that 'everyone finds enjoyable living in', which is indeed an ideal. edit: grammar
- paradite 9y ago
  Since you mentioned "ideal", let me give you an example of "ideal". ＂中国梦＂, literally translated as "the Chinese dream" and a phrase coined by CCP, describes an "ideal" that fits your description. But no, "beautiful" in this context just means prettier physical outlook of buildings. You can't over-interpret it (at least in Chinese).
  - tfcata 9y ago
    I think you only understood part of what it tries to convey. Good aesthetics, yes, part of '美丽'. But I won't say '美丽' stops short at simply say 'we will build our cities to look pleasing', at least I won't expect the Constitution to be so pragmatic, because it serves as an guide on the ideology (sort of).
    - paradite 9y ago
      I think I get what you mean: Because it is the constitution, it must be abstract and serve as guiding principle. However, I beg to differ. Here is the full latest constitution: Chinese: http://www.12371.cn/special/zggcdzc/zggcdzcqw/ http://www.12371.cn/special/zggcdzc/zggcdzcqw/ English: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/download/Constitution_of_the_Communist_Party_of_China.pdf http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/download/Constitution_of_t... As you can see, the paragraph on "beautiful" is just a tiny part of the constitution and the word "beautiful" only appears once throughout the entire constitution. So it is probably not something very "guiding" and "central". Also, the constitution touches on a lot of aspects of the society, so I wouldn't be surprised if it is amended to include a small mention of the "look" of the physical landscape. I would say that the word is added just to make sure that the party keep environmental concerns and "good outlook" in mind while working on all the other tasks.
      - tfcata 9y ago
        If the entire Constitution is about concrete matters comparable to 'building good-looking cities', and 'building good-looking cities' is certainly one such matter because it is emphasized in the concluding remark, then why would the word appear only once? I don't believe abruptly inserting a term that's never mentioned is good writing style. A plausible way to understand it is that, the concluding remark is a summarizing call-to-action, laying out the spiritual and ideological framework for the rest to act upon. It certainly needs to be abstract, just as the four words preceding 美丽.
figurehe4d 9y ago
Its a western tendency to look for alternate interpretations of speech ("what is this really saying?") contrasted with Chinese style of writing which is typically very literal.