5 ms·

The proper way to improve education in a community is to get involved with the existing school systems -- the schools are already there. Be wary of ideologues p

The proper way to improve education in a community is to get involved with the existing school systems -- the schools are already there. Be wary of ideologues possessing way too much money combined with an impoverished sense of ethics (e.g., Zuckerberg) who shun existing civic institutions and go off to start their own for-profit/corporate 'schools' instead.

734786710934 9y ago
>The proper way to improve education in a community is to get involved with the existing school systems That didn't work out too well when Zuckerberg tried it: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/how-newark-schools-partially-squandered-a-great-prize/2015/10/20/ffff660c-7743-11e5-a958-d889faf561dc_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/how-newark-schools-p...
- seasonalgrit 9y ago
  Thank you for sharing that link. I am not familiar with Russakoff's work and it looks very thought-provoking.
- jacobolus 9y ago
  Having unaccountable billionaires with no knowledge of the field dump piles of money down (along with dictating how it should be spent) in a splashy PR stunt is a horrible way to improve public institutions. Instead we should properly tax the billionaires, and then elect public officials who value public education, so they can figure out how to improve schools with the advice and help of all of the local stakeholders. But a lot of the rich folks’ education initiatives (including Zuckerberg’s, probably) turn out to be more about gaming the tax code and sometimes immigration laws (with a bonus of good PR) than really helping the schools out. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2014/06/04/why-hedge-funds-love-charter-schools/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2014/06/... As an added bonus (more relevant to the Koch brothers than Zuckerberg perhaps), charter schools help break teachers’ unions and destroy the public education system, which has a big knock-on political benefit for Republicans who want to undercut a major base of Democratic party support.
  - Decade 9y ago
    It would be nice if the public officials actually cared about education, and weren’t using the position as a sinecure until a position with real power opens up. https://www.thebaycitybeacon.com/politics/who-are-all-these-candidates/article_98246948-a319-11e7-a03f-772054b65534.html https://www.thebaycitybeacon.com/politics/who-are-all-these-... I do not blame people who care wanting to work around this system.
    - jopsen 9y ago
      > I do not blame people who care wanting to work around this system. Agree.... But workarounds won't scale.
      - tea-flow 9y ago
        Why not?
  - nemothekid 9y ago
    >Instead we should properly tax the billionaires, and then elect public officials who value public education, so they can figure out how to improve schools with the advice and help of all of the local stakeholders. So you're saying that Zuckerberg should run for president? I understand that what you are suggesting will be effective, I just don't see how that translates into something that Zuckerburg should do. Assuming Zuckerberg is honest in his intention on his education initiatives, Fixing the tax code would be noble for someone like him, but would pit him against other billionaires and would likely be a decades long detour on his immediate goal. Secondly, I don't see how he could suddenly influence general voting populace to suddenly care about education (save for propaganda delivered via facebook (maybe unethical), or going into politics (who wants Zuck to be POTUS))? As I understand it, you seem to be arguing that the problems are not Zuck's to solve, and therefore he shouldn't try (or his piles of money will cause more harm than good).
    - jacobolus 9y ago
      Good god no. Zuckerberg would be a terrible president (less narcissistic and less stupid than the current one, but perhaps just as dangerous), without the appropriate qualifications, experience, vision, talent, or track record (other than a boatload of money, which I guess in this post-Citizens-United world can substitute for anything else). The concept of having a cabal of CEO billionaires with no political or policymaking experience explicitly in charge of the US government not only leads to terrible outcomes in practice, but is un-American in principle. Zuckerberg should focus his attention on running his business in an ethical and civically minded way (a lot of low hanging fruit here if he wants to critically examine and do something about Facebook’s sometimes negative effects on people’s lives, news media, and on civic institutions in general), and should not try to single-handedly decide the future form of public institutions. If Zuckerberg wants to put his money to good use as a private citizen, he should donate it to a charity with a successful track record and expert leadership instead of trying to exert personal control in a field he knows nothing about or turn everything into a personal PR stunt, or he should spend his effort on lobbying against unlimited anonymous spending in political campaigns, probably the most civically corrosive recent trend in American politics.
- laughinghan 9y ago
  Note that this is an Op-Ed, not a news article. The claim that the problem with that effort was bureaucratic waste that was no fault of Zuckerberg is some heavy editorializing. Such a claim would indeed support Zuck starting his own school where he has even more control. Other reporting tells a different story: while rising-star politicians loved seeing their names in headlines next to big numbers, the effort was catastrophically disconnected from the local community. Unlike public money, private money needed no public review, so the effort was launched like a surprise attack on the local teacher's union; the million-dollar community-engagement campaign's centerpiece public forums drew hundreds of residents who volunteered to help their local schools, who never heard back; the superintendent appointed to carry out the effort was an outsider from California who at one point got a unanimous vote of no confidence by the school advisory board (with no effect because "advisory"); that superintendent spent $3 million on an international consulting firm to develop a plan to redistribute students in the school system so that the neediest students don't end up in the worst schools like they usually do, but then couldn't answer basic questions from parents when the plan was finally revealed. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/05/19/schooled https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/05/19/schooled Such a narrative would instead suggest that Zuckerberg should focus on more community engagement, rather than on consolidating more control over schools he wants to be better.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
tomjen3 9y ago
The proper way is what works.
- r00fus 9y ago
  That is a tautology/ syllogism. How do you know what works (and if something else would have been better)?
  - perfmode 9y ago
    You try it one way. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/how-newark-schools-partially-squandered-a-great-prize/2015/10/20/ffff660c-7743-11e5-a958-d889faf561dc_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/how-newark-schools-p... If or when that fails, you try another. This is another.
  - hkmurakami 9y ago
    There is already an East Palo Alto private prep school (East Side Prep) with a very strong track record at preparing their students for college and employment.
  - humanrebar 9y ago
    No, it's saying a proper way must work. If you think your approach works, please make the case for that. Keep in mind that the system whereby public school districts are funded by local taxes have a spotty record at best. Disclaimer: Saying public schools have a spotty record isn't insulting people who work in or love public schools. Objectively, property values correlate with school quality for a reason. And high property values make quality schools more expensive, especially for the poor, but the profits are captured by landlords, not the school system or the general fund of local government. Point being, this isn't a personal, us-versus-them fight.

734786710934 9y ago

>The proper way to improve education in a community is to get involved with the existing school systems That didn't work out too well when Zuckerberg tried it: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/how-newark-schools-partially-squandered-a-great-prize/2015/10/20/ffff660c-7743-11e5-a958-d889faf561dc_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/how-newark-schools-p...

seasonalgrit 9y ago
Thank you for sharing that link. I am not familiar with Russakoff's work and it looks very thought-provoking.
jacobolus 9y ago
Having unaccountable billionaires with no knowledge of the field dump piles of money down (along with dictating how it should be spent) in a splashy PR stunt is a horrible way to improve public institutions. Instead we should properly tax the billionaires, and then elect public officials who value public education, so they can figure out how to improve schools with the advice and help of all of the local stakeholders. But a lot of the rich folks’ education initiatives (including Zuckerberg’s, probably) turn out to be more about gaming the tax code and sometimes immigration laws (with a bonus of good PR) than really helping the schools out. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2014/06/04/why-hedge-funds-love-charter-schools/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2014/06/... As an added bonus (more relevant to the Koch brothers than Zuckerberg perhaps), charter schools help break teachers’ unions and destroy the public education system, which has a big knock-on political benefit for Republicans who want to undercut a major base of Democratic party support.
- Decade 9y ago
  It would be nice if the public officials actually cared about education, and weren’t using the position as a sinecure until a position with real power opens up. https://www.thebaycitybeacon.com/politics/who-are-all-these-candidates/article_98246948-a319-11e7-a03f-772054b65534.html https://www.thebaycitybeacon.com/politics/who-are-all-these-... I do not blame people who care wanting to work around this system.
  - jopsen 9y ago
    > I do not blame people who care wanting to work around this system. Agree.... But workarounds won't scale.
    - tea-flow 9y ago
      Why not?
- nemothekid 9y ago
  >Instead we should properly tax the billionaires, and then elect public officials who value public education, so they can figure out how to improve schools with the advice and help of all of the local stakeholders. So you're saying that Zuckerberg should run for president? I understand that what you are suggesting will be effective, I just don't see how that translates into something that Zuckerburg should do. Assuming Zuckerberg is honest in his intention on his education initiatives, Fixing the tax code would be noble for someone like him, but would pit him against other billionaires and would likely be a decades long detour on his immediate goal. Secondly, I don't see how he could suddenly influence general voting populace to suddenly care about education (save for propaganda delivered via facebook (maybe unethical), or going into politics (who wants Zuck to be POTUS))? As I understand it, you seem to be arguing that the problems are not Zuck's to solve, and therefore he shouldn't try (or his piles of money will cause more harm than good).
  - jacobolus 9y ago
    Good god no. Zuckerberg would be a terrible president (less narcissistic and less stupid than the current one, but perhaps just as dangerous), without the appropriate qualifications, experience, vision, talent, or track record (other than a boatload of money, which I guess in this post-Citizens-United world can substitute for anything else). The concept of having a cabal of CEO billionaires with no political or policymaking experience explicitly in charge of the US government not only leads to terrible outcomes in practice, but is un-American in principle. Zuckerberg should focus his attention on running his business in an ethical and civically minded way (a lot of low hanging fruit here if he wants to critically examine and do something about Facebook’s sometimes negative effects on people’s lives, news media, and on civic institutions in general), and should not try to single-handedly decide the future form of public institutions. If Zuckerberg wants to put his money to good use as a private citizen, he should donate it to a charity with a successful track record and expert leadership instead of trying to exert personal control in a field he knows nothing about or turn everything into a personal PR stunt, or he should spend his effort on lobbying against unlimited anonymous spending in political campaigns, probably the most civically corrosive recent trend in American politics.
laughinghan 9y ago
Note that this is an Op-Ed, not a news article. The claim that the problem with that effort was bureaucratic waste that was no fault of Zuckerberg is some heavy editorializing. Such a claim would indeed support Zuck starting his own school where he has even more control. Other reporting tells a different story: while rising-star politicians loved seeing their names in headlines next to big numbers, the effort was catastrophically disconnected from the local community. Unlike public money, private money needed no public review, so the effort was launched like a surprise attack on the local teacher's union; the million-dollar community-engagement campaign's centerpiece public forums drew hundreds of residents who volunteered to help their local schools, who never heard back; the superintendent appointed to carry out the effort was an outsider from California who at one point got a unanimous vote of no confidence by the school advisory board (with no effect because "advisory"); that superintendent spent $3 million on an international consulting firm to develop a plan to redistribute students in the school system so that the neediest students don't end up in the worst schools like they usually do, but then couldn't answer basic questions from parents when the plan was finally revealed. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/05/19/schooled https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/05/19/schooled Such a narrative would instead suggest that Zuckerberg should focus on more community engagement, rather than on consolidating more control over schools he wants to be better.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

tomjen3 9y ago

The proper way is what works.

r00fus 9y ago
That is a tautology/ syllogism. How do you know what works (and if something else would have been better)?
- perfmode 9y ago
  You try it one way. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/how-newark-schools-partially-squandered-a-great-prize/2015/10/20/ffff660c-7743-11e5-a958-d889faf561dc_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/how-newark-schools-p... If or when that fails, you try another. This is another.
- hkmurakami 9y ago
  There is already an East Palo Alto private prep school (East Side Prep) with a very strong track record at preparing their students for college and employment.
- humanrebar 9y ago
  No, it's saying a proper way must work. If you think your approach works, please make the case for that. Keep in mind that the system whereby public school districts are funded by local taxes have a spotty record at best. Disclaimer: Saying public schools have a spotty record isn't insulting people who work in or love public schools. Objectively, property values correlate with school quality for a reason. And high property values make quality schools more expensive, especially for the poor, but the profits are captured by landlords, not the school system or the general fund of local government. Point being, this isn't a personal, us-versus-them fight.