5 ms·

So is this one mechanism of how Chinese nations get their money out to afford million dollar properties in Australia? > Australia's money laundering watchdog i

by sasas 9y ago

So is this one mechanism of how Chinese nations get their money out to afford million dollar properties in Australia? > Australia's money laundering watchdog investigated more than $3 billion in suspicious transfers by Chinese investors last year, including $1 billion in property transactions. [1] Considering they can only take out 50k USD per year [2] I'm sure many can agree it's disgraceful that the Australian government is turning a blind eye to an incredible amount of money laundering... which some may argue is contributing to the incredibly high housing prices in Melbourne and Sydney. There are no median house prices left in Sydney under half a million dollars. [3]. A friend witnessed a Chinese national at an auction try to pay their deposit with a suitcase of cash. The real estate agent had to explain (through a translator) that they can't accept that amount of cash in a suitcase. Sorry can't give a reference here, but other HN'ers who have witnessed the auction frenzy in Australia may attest that this scenario is plausible. Note, I'm not implying the Chinese are the direct contributor to the current situation, I am simply suggesting there is contributory related forces at play... Australian Financial Review - "Of China's $47.3 billion (investments in Australia in 2016), $31.9 billion will go into real estate mostly in residential development assets." [4] [1] http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/australian-economy/chinese-investors-pumping-billions-of-dodgy-cash-into-australian-property/news-story/cdab9af854d70d805a5b51cf881e40c9 http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/australian-economy/ch... [2] http://www.cityweekend.com.cn/china/article/how-to-get-your-money-out-of-china http://www.cityweekend.com.cn/china/article/how-to-get-your-... [3] https://www.domain.com.au/news/there-are-now-no-suburbs-left-in-sydney-with-a-median-house-price-under-500000-20171016-gz1sxj/ https://www.domain.com.au/news/there-are-now-no-suburbs-left... [4] http://www.afr.com/real-estate/chinese-investment-in-real-estate-grows-to-32bn-firb-20170509-gw0sla http://www.afr.com/real-estate/chinese-investment-in-real-es...

cakeface 9y ago
I feel like you may have a bit of an axe to grind about local real estate prices. Yes, they are money laundering in the sense that they are avoiding regulations from their home country. But they aren't trying to avoid Australian regulations right? These investors generally have legal businesses in China, as much as that is possible in a state like that. "I'm sure many can agree it's disgraceful" is a particularly choice piece of rhetoric that I am still trying to unpack. Also I like how you over attributed your comment as an appeal to authority. There is a whole ball of string that you find when you start pulling the thread of your argument. That ball of string can be called globalization. Many people around the world are just coming to terms with the trade offs involved in the the way we have structured the world today. You can see some of this in the nationalism of Trump and Brexit. It is a complicated problem with complicated answers. I just want people to watch out for situations like this and not think that "whoah, this is clearly disgracefully wrong".
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- sasas 9y ago
  > I feel like you may have a bit of an axe to grind about local real estate prices Absolutely. Due primarily to record low interest rates, negative gearing and capital gains tax reductions. > "I'm sure many can agree it's disgraceful" is a particularly choice piece of rhetoric that I am still trying to unpack Thanks for pulling me up on that, I acknowledge the comment does not contribute to a healthy discussion. > You can see some of this in the nationalism of Trump and Brexit. Your spot on. As the gap widens people will be looking for others to blame for their misfortune. This is what we need to avoid at all costs. Nationalism has no place in society. I hope I did not come across as blaming a specific nationality. The blame goes directly onto government policy. Let's ensure Australia doesn't regress into the rhetoric we are seeing in other places. > I just want people to watch out for situations like this and not think that "whoah, this is clearly disgracefully wrong". Let me be very specific, what i'm implying is disgraceful is real estate agents and government regulatory bodies ignoring the "The Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing Act 2006" [1]. "AUSTRAC has identified that laundering illicit funds through real estate is an established money laundering method in Australia," said a spokesperson. "Criminals are drawn to real estate investment in Australia because it is possible to purchase in cash, it offers reliable returns and it is possible to disguise ownership." [2] Example - "A senior Chinese policeman has been jailed for 17 years for embezzling money to buy two Australian homes for his two daughters." [3] [1] http://www.austrac.gov.au/businesses/legislation/amlctf-act http://www.austrac.gov.au/businesses/legislation/amlctf-act [2] http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-neverending-money-laundering-review-20160306-gnbse0.html http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-neverending-money-launder... [3] http://www.smh.com.au/world/chinese-police-chief-wang-jun-ren-jailed-for-buying-australian-real-estate-with-corrupt-money-20170317-gv0nz6.html http://www.smh.com.au/world/chinese-police-chief-wang-jun-re...
- santiagogo 9y ago
  Completely agree. As someone who lives in a developing country, it always seems funny to me how there is frequently a distorted view in developed countries of how globalization should work, where they get all the upsides but none of the competition. Everybody loves the idea of selling in a global market, but few realize that with globalization there are more opportunities, but also that they will have to work harder, study more and be more creative to compete for businesses, jobs and assets, with billions of people who previously had little to no opportunities, but who are willing to put in a lot of effort to compete for a share of the global marketplace. The trickiest part is that with technology and education, globalization is inevitable in the long term, no matter what politicians do or think. From my view, sometimes it looks hypocritical when people from developed countries criticize the local 1% and the rigged system and unfair privilege that keep rich people rich, but then demand and expect that they get those same advantages on a country wide level, without realizing that they are simply defending the global 1% because it benefits/affects them directly.
mistermann 9y ago
> A friend witnessed a Chinese national at an auction try to pay their deposit with a suitcase of cash. The real estate agent had to explain (through a translator) that they can't accept that amount of cash in a suitcase. In Vancouver there's a well oiled mechanism of bringing duffle bags of cash into casinos for cleansing, in plain sight and with the knowledge of law enforcement. There was a small scandal recently where police got involved for some reason, but nothing will come of it. Truth is stranger than fiction.
- greggarious 9y ago
  >In Vancouver there's a well oiled mechanism of bringing duffle bags of cash into casinos for cleansing, in plain sight and with the knowledge of law enforcement. There was a small scandal recently where police got involved for some reason, but nothing will come of it. That's a very interesting fact, do you have a source so I can read more about it?
  - mistermann 9y ago
    On mobile so can't easily find something, but if you're genuinely curious to know more, you can easily Google a significant newspaper article on it.
    - greggarious 9y ago
      Yes, I could, but you're the one making a claim.
      - mistermann 9y ago
        I'm not here to win internet points, believe whatever you want. It is a fact that money is being laundered. I'm starting to think that the internet is starting to have significant effects on culture, in that people will no longer believe things that they see in physical reality if they can't find it reported on the internet.
        9y ago

by sasas 9y ago

cakeface 9y ago

I feel like you may have a bit of an axe to grind about local real estate prices. Yes, they are money laundering in the sense that they are avoiding regulations from their home country. But they aren't trying to avoid Australian regulations right? These investors generally have legal businesses in China, as much as that is possible in a state like that. "I'm sure many can agree it's disgraceful" is a particularly choice piece of rhetoric that I am still trying to unpack. Also I like how you over attributed your comment as an appeal to authority. There is a whole ball of string that you find when you start pulling the thread of your argument. That ball of string can be called globalization. Many people around the world are just coming to terms with the trade offs involved in the the way we have structured the world today. You can see some of this in the nationalism of Trump and Brexit. It is a complicated problem with complicated answers. I just want people to watch out for situations like this and not think that "whoah, this is clearly disgracefully wrong".

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
sasas 9y ago
> I feel like you may have a bit of an axe to grind about local real estate prices Absolutely. Due primarily to record low interest rates, negative gearing and capital gains tax reductions. > "I'm sure many can agree it's disgraceful" is a particularly choice piece of rhetoric that I am still trying to unpack Thanks for pulling me up on that, I acknowledge the comment does not contribute to a healthy discussion. > You can see some of this in the nationalism of Trump and Brexit. Your spot on. As the gap widens people will be looking for others to blame for their misfortune. This is what we need to avoid at all costs. Nationalism has no place in society. I hope I did not come across as blaming a specific nationality. The blame goes directly onto government policy. Let's ensure Australia doesn't regress into the rhetoric we are seeing in other places. > I just want people to watch out for situations like this and not think that "whoah, this is clearly disgracefully wrong". Let me be very specific, what i'm implying is disgraceful is real estate agents and government regulatory bodies ignoring the "The Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing Act 2006" [1]. "AUSTRAC has identified that laundering illicit funds through real estate is an established money laundering method in Australia," said a spokesperson. "Criminals are drawn to real estate investment in Australia because it is possible to purchase in cash, it offers reliable returns and it is possible to disguise ownership." [2] Example - "A senior Chinese policeman has been jailed for 17 years for embezzling money to buy two Australian homes for his two daughters." [3] [1] http://www.austrac.gov.au/businesses/legislation/amlctf-act http://www.austrac.gov.au/businesses/legislation/amlctf-act [2] http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-neverending-money-laundering-review-20160306-gnbse0.html http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-neverending-money-launder... [3] http://www.smh.com.au/world/chinese-police-chief-wang-jun-ren-jailed-for-buying-australian-real-estate-with-corrupt-money-20170317-gv0nz6.html http://www.smh.com.au/world/chinese-police-chief-wang-jun-re...
santiagogo 9y ago
Completely agree. As someone who lives in a developing country, it always seems funny to me how there is frequently a distorted view in developed countries of how globalization should work, where they get all the upsides but none of the competition. Everybody loves the idea of selling in a global market, but few realize that with globalization there are more opportunities, but also that they will have to work harder, study more and be more creative to compete for businesses, jobs and assets, with billions of people who previously had little to no opportunities, but who are willing to put in a lot of effort to compete for a share of the global marketplace. The trickiest part is that with technology and education, globalization is inevitable in the long term, no matter what politicians do or think. From my view, sometimes it looks hypocritical when people from developed countries criticize the local 1% and the rigged system and unfair privilege that keep rich people rich, but then demand and expect that they get those same advantages on a country wide level, without realizing that they are simply defending the global 1% because it benefits/affects them directly.

mistermann 9y ago

> A friend witnessed a Chinese national at an auction try to pay their deposit with a suitcase of cash. The real estate agent had to explain (through a translator) that they can't accept that amount of cash in a suitcase. In Vancouver there's a well oiled mechanism of bringing duffle bags of cash into casinos for cleansing, in plain sight and with the knowledge of law enforcement. There was a small scandal recently where police got involved for some reason, but nothing will come of it. Truth is stranger than fiction.

greggarious 9y ago
>In Vancouver there's a well oiled mechanism of bringing duffle bags of cash into casinos for cleansing, in plain sight and with the knowledge of law enforcement. There was a small scandal recently where police got involved for some reason, but nothing will come of it. That's a very interesting fact, do you have a source so I can read more about it?
- mistermann 9y ago
  On mobile so can't easily find something, but if you're genuinely curious to know more, you can easily Google a significant newspaper article on it.
  - greggarious 9y ago
    Yes, I could, but you're the one making a claim.
    - mistermann 9y ago
      I'm not here to win internet points, believe whatever you want. It is a fact that money is being laundered. I'm starting to think that the internet is starting to have significant effects on culture, in that people will no longer believe things that they see in physical reality if they can't find it reported on the internet.
      - 9y ago