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> The Mac is extremely flexible when it comes to the keyboard. True, but the fact that macbooks ship with a keyboard lacking page up, page down, home and end

> The Mac is extremely flexible when it comes to the keyboard. True, but the fact that macbooks ship with a keyboard lacking page up, page down, home and end just frustrates me to no end. Much smaller sized laptops manage to include those keys while maintaining comfort. And you cannot make up for missing keys with key combos.

Cyberdog 9y ago
> And you cannot make up for missing keys with key combos. If you're saying you can't replicate those keys with key combos: Fn-Up Arrow, Fn-Down Arrow, Fn-Left Arrow and Fn-Right Arrow perform PgUp, PgDn, Home, and End, respectively. If you're saying key combos are not a suitable replacement for those keys being not present: Well, I make do, personally.
- fiddlerwoaroof 9y ago
  Yeah, I personally prefer the fn+arrow key instead of having a dedicated key for these functions.
  - pluma 9y ago
    I take it you don't use them in key combinations then. Ctrl+Home, stuff like that.
    - jeffhuys 9y ago
      Ctrl + FN + Up, right? It makes complete sense to me. Going back to Windows (gaming PC) feel really counterintuitive.
    - fiddlerwoaroof 9y ago
      Yeah, I use Shift+Pg Up all the time in the terminal: on the laptop keyboard, at least, you can hit Fn+Shift or Fn+Ctrl with one finger and then the arrow key with another.
- _asummers 9y ago
  Home/End can also be accomplished with Cmd up/down.
  - mikestew 9y ago
    Or (EDIT: whoops, Ctrl not Cmd) Ctrl-A and Ctrl-E, Emacs style. In fact, a lot of Emacs navigation combos work just about everywhere on macOS. I have a keyboard with all of the keys the laptop keyboard leaves off, but I find that I don’t use them on macOS.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - _asummers 9y ago
      Cmd-a is select all in OSX by default and Cmd-e does nothing for me. The capital versions don't do anything noteworthy for me either. In emacs, home/end would be M-< and M-> no? To your point, Ctrl-a/e/f/b/n/p all work as they do in emacs in OSX.
      - zachsnow 9y ago
        They meant ctrl-a and ctrl-e.
      - bipson 9y ago
        CMD-e used to be "eject selected disk" in Finder/desktop. Will thus also cause the error-"bloing"/"don't know what you want"- sound on most macOS versions, if nothing suitable is selected.
        mercutio2 9y ago
        CMD-e is apply the selected text to the search input. Extremely useful, search for the next instance of a word you see on the screen is thus: Double click word CMD-e CMD-g
        9y ago
rangibaby 9y ago
I quite like that the Apple laptops maintain full sized keys instead of just jamming everything in
- dingo_bat 9y ago
  My laptop manages to include all keys without compromising on key size. It is a 14 inch HP. I'm sure a 15 inch MBpro can do the same easily.
  - PhasmaFelis 9y ago
    Perhaps they feel it's valuable to maintain identical keyboard layouts across different form factors, including the 13" and 11" MacBooks? I know it's a pain in the ass to get used to the "clever" key positioning on every new Windows laptop I use.
    - dingo_bat 9y ago
      > Perhaps they feel it's valuable to maintain identical keyboard layouts across different form factors, including the 13" and 11" MacBooks? If true, that's the stupidest design decision I ever heard of.
      - rangibaby 9y ago
        Why? It follows the principle of least surprise. Imagine if coke bottles had the "mouth" in a different position depending on the size of the bottle. While not an insurmountable obstacle it's not great either.

Cyberdog 9y ago

> And you cannot make up for missing keys with key combos. If you're saying you can't replicate those keys with key combos: Fn-Up Arrow, Fn-Down Arrow, Fn-Left Arrow and Fn-Right Arrow perform PgUp, PgDn, Home, and End, respectively. If you're saying key combos are not a suitable replacement for those keys being not present: Well, I make do, personally.

fiddlerwoaroof 9y ago
Yeah, I personally prefer the fn+arrow key instead of having a dedicated key for these functions.
- pluma 9y ago
  I take it you don't use them in key combinations then. Ctrl+Home, stuff like that.
  - jeffhuys 9y ago
    Ctrl + FN + Up, right? It makes complete sense to me. Going back to Windows (gaming PC) feel really counterintuitive.
  - fiddlerwoaroof 9y ago
    Yeah, I use Shift+Pg Up all the time in the terminal: on the laptop keyboard, at least, you can hit Fn+Shift or Fn+Ctrl with one finger and then the arrow key with another.
_asummers 9y ago
Home/End can also be accomplished with Cmd up/down.
- mikestew 9y ago
  Or (EDIT: whoops, Ctrl not Cmd) Ctrl-A and Ctrl-E, Emacs style. In fact, a lot of Emacs navigation combos work just about everywhere on macOS. I have a keyboard with all of the keys the laptop keyboard leaves off, but I find that I don’t use them on macOS.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - _asummers 9y ago
    Cmd-a is select all in OSX by default and Cmd-e does nothing for me. The capital versions don't do anything noteworthy for me either. In emacs, home/end would be M-< and M-> no? To your point, Ctrl-a/e/f/b/n/p all work as they do in emacs in OSX.
    - zachsnow 9y ago
      They meant ctrl-a and ctrl-e.
    - bipson 9y ago
      CMD-e used to be "eject selected disk" in Finder/desktop. Will thus also cause the error-"bloing"/"don't know what you want"- sound on most macOS versions, if nothing suitable is selected.
      - mercutio2 9y ago
        CMD-e is apply the selected text to the search input. Extremely useful, search for the next instance of a word you see on the screen is thus: Double click word CMD-e CMD-g
        9y ago

rangibaby 9y ago

I quite like that the Apple laptops maintain full sized keys instead of just jamming everything in

dingo_bat 9y ago
My laptop manages to include all keys without compromising on key size. It is a 14 inch HP. I'm sure a 15 inch MBpro can do the same easily.
- PhasmaFelis 9y ago
  Perhaps they feel it's valuable to maintain identical keyboard layouts across different form factors, including the 13" and 11" MacBooks? I know it's a pain in the ass to get used to the "clever" key positioning on every new Windows laptop I use.
  - dingo_bat 9y ago
    > Perhaps they feel it's valuable to maintain identical keyboard layouts across different form factors, including the 13" and 11" MacBooks? If true, that's the stupidest design decision I ever heard of.
    - rangibaby 9y ago
      Why? It follows the principle of least surprise. Imagine if coke bottles had the "mouth" in a different position depending on the size of the bottle. While not an insurmountable obstacle it's not great either.