7 ms·

This is kind of short on details but a few things I’m curious about... First, function keys are not necessarily “normal” when pressed; by default they also req

This is kind of short on details but a few things I’m curious about... First, function keys are not necessarily “normal” when pressed; by default they also require “fn” to be pressed, otherwise they perform a system function (Dashboard, sound volume, etc.). And since you can turn off a lot of these features in System Preferences, I can imagine that these keys might be set to do nothing. It is also possible for Mac applications to install system-wide hot keys, theoretically overriding even single key presses. At the very least you need to know what apps are currently running to debug this. It is also possible to install your own keyboard overrides, through System Preferences. Need to check those. I’m probably missing some other things. The Mac is extremely flexible when it comes to the keyboard.

dingo_bat 9y ago
> The Mac is extremely flexible when it comes to the keyboard. True, but the fact that macbooks ship with a keyboard lacking page up, page down, home and end just frustrates me to no end. Much smaller sized laptops manage to include those keys while maintaining comfort. And you cannot make up for missing keys with key combos.
- Cyberdog 9y ago
  > And you cannot make up for missing keys with key combos. If you're saying you can't replicate those keys with key combos: Fn-Up Arrow, Fn-Down Arrow, Fn-Left Arrow and Fn-Right Arrow perform PgUp, PgDn, Home, and End, respectively. If you're saying key combos are not a suitable replacement for those keys being not present: Well, I make do, personally.
  - fiddlerwoaroof 9y ago
    Yeah, I personally prefer the fn+arrow key instead of having a dedicated key for these functions.
    - pluma 9y ago
      I take it you don't use them in key combinations then. Ctrl+Home, stuff like that.
      - jeffhuys 9y ago
        Ctrl + FN + Up, right? It makes complete sense to me. Going back to Windows (gaming PC) feel really counterintuitive.
      - fiddlerwoaroof 9y ago
        Yeah, I use Shift+Pg Up all the time in the terminal: on the laptop keyboard, at least, you can hit Fn+Shift or Fn+Ctrl with one finger and then the arrow key with another.
  - _asummers 9y ago
    Home/End can also be accomplished with Cmd up/down.
    - mikestew 9y ago
      Or (EDIT: whoops, Ctrl not Cmd) Ctrl-A and Ctrl-E, Emacs style. In fact, a lot of Emacs navigation combos work just about everywhere on macOS. I have a keyboard with all of the keys the laptop keyboard leaves off, but I find that I don’t use them on macOS.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
      - _asummers 9y ago
        Cmd-a is select all in OSX by default and Cmd-e does nothing for me. The capital versions don't do anything noteworthy for me either. In emacs, home/end would be M-< and M-> no? To your point, Ctrl-a/e/f/b/n/p all work as they do in emacs in OSX.
        zachsnow 9y ago
        They meant ctrl-a and ctrl-e.
        bipson 9y ago
        CMD-e used to be "eject selected disk" in Finder/desktop. Will thus also cause the error-"bloing"/"don't know what you want"- sound on most macOS versions, if nothing suitable is selected.
        mercutio2 9y ago
        CMD-e is apply the selected text to the search input. Extremely useful, search for the next instance of a word you see on the screen is thus: Double click word CMD-e CMD-g
        9y ago
- rangibaby 9y ago
  I quite like that the Apple laptops maintain full sized keys instead of just jamming everything in
  - dingo_bat 9y ago
    My laptop manages to include all keys without compromising on key size. It is a 14 inch HP. I'm sure a 15 inch MBpro can do the same easily.
    - PhasmaFelis 9y ago
      Perhaps they feel it's valuable to maintain identical keyboard layouts across different form factors, including the 13" and 11" MacBooks? I know it's a pain in the ass to get used to the "clever" key positioning on every new Windows laptop I use.
      - dingo_bat 9y ago
        > Perhaps they feel it's valuable to maintain identical keyboard layouts across different form factors, including the 13" and 11" MacBooks? If true, that's the stupidest design decision I ever heard of.
        rangibaby 9y ago
        Why? It follows the principle of least surprise. Imagine if coke bottles had the "mouth" in a different position depending on the size of the bottle. While not an insurmountable obstacle it's not great either.

dingo_bat 9y ago

> The Mac is extremely flexible when it comes to the keyboard. True, but the fact that macbooks ship with a keyboard lacking page up, page down, home and end just frustrates me to no end. Much smaller sized laptops manage to include those keys while maintaining comfort. And you cannot make up for missing keys with key combos.

Cyberdog 9y ago
> And you cannot make up for missing keys with key combos. If you're saying you can't replicate those keys with key combos: Fn-Up Arrow, Fn-Down Arrow, Fn-Left Arrow and Fn-Right Arrow perform PgUp, PgDn, Home, and End, respectively. If you're saying key combos are not a suitable replacement for those keys being not present: Well, I make do, personally.
- fiddlerwoaroof 9y ago
  Yeah, I personally prefer the fn+arrow key instead of having a dedicated key for these functions.
  - pluma 9y ago
    I take it you don't use them in key combinations then. Ctrl+Home, stuff like that.
    - jeffhuys 9y ago
      Ctrl + FN + Up, right? It makes complete sense to me. Going back to Windows (gaming PC) feel really counterintuitive.
    - fiddlerwoaroof 9y ago
      Yeah, I use Shift+Pg Up all the time in the terminal: on the laptop keyboard, at least, you can hit Fn+Shift or Fn+Ctrl with one finger and then the arrow key with another.
- _asummers 9y ago
  Home/End can also be accomplished with Cmd up/down.
  - mikestew 9y ago
    Or (EDIT: whoops, Ctrl not Cmd) Ctrl-A and Ctrl-E, Emacs style. In fact, a lot of Emacs navigation combos work just about everywhere on macOS. I have a keyboard with all of the keys the laptop keyboard leaves off, but I find that I don’t use them on macOS.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - _asummers 9y ago
      Cmd-a is select all in OSX by default and Cmd-e does nothing for me. The capital versions don't do anything noteworthy for me either. In emacs, home/end would be M-< and M-> no? To your point, Ctrl-a/e/f/b/n/p all work as they do in emacs in OSX.
      - zachsnow 9y ago
        They meant ctrl-a and ctrl-e.
      - bipson 9y ago
        CMD-e used to be "eject selected disk" in Finder/desktop. Will thus also cause the error-"bloing"/"don't know what you want"- sound on most macOS versions, if nothing suitable is selected.
        mercutio2 9y ago
        CMD-e is apply the selected text to the search input. Extremely useful, search for the next instance of a word you see on the screen is thus: Double click word CMD-e CMD-g
        9y ago
rangibaby 9y ago
I quite like that the Apple laptops maintain full sized keys instead of just jamming everything in
- dingo_bat 9y ago
  My laptop manages to include all keys without compromising on key size. It is a 14 inch HP. I'm sure a 15 inch MBpro can do the same easily.
  - PhasmaFelis 9y ago
    Perhaps they feel it's valuable to maintain identical keyboard layouts across different form factors, including the 13" and 11" MacBooks? I know it's a pain in the ass to get used to the "clever" key positioning on every new Windows laptop I use.
    - dingo_bat 9y ago
      > Perhaps they feel it's valuable to maintain identical keyboard layouts across different form factors, including the 13" and 11" MacBooks? If true, that's the stupidest design decision I ever heard of.
      - rangibaby 9y ago
        Why? It follows the principle of least surprise. Imagine if coke bottles had the "mouth" in a different position depending on the size of the bottle. While not an insurmountable obstacle it's not great either.