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Let me put this as pragmatically as possible. There are many who are currently in some form prison on US soil, who have no access to legal counsel, who have no

Let me put this as pragmatically as possible. There are many who are currently in some form prison on US soil, who have no access to legal counsel, who have not been charged with any crime (though they have been accused), who will not get out out because no-one outside the system even knows they are there. This is a fundamental right of the US government - it does not have to follow any clause of the US Constitution it does not want to. That is, the rights of the US government trump the rights of the citizens of the US. You citizens are just irrelevant and just there to do as you are told. When you do get a little upset, you'll get a small useless dirty bone thrown to you to gnaw on. So shut up, do as you are told and we'll keep you safe and sound, because we are the "good guys" and you are nothing.

dang 9y ago
Maybe, but on a much smaller scale, would you please not rant like this on HN? We're trying for a higher quality of discussion here, and the combination of sweeping claims and high indignation points leads lower.
- oldandtired 9y ago
  Maybe I should have put in the sarc notes. If you took time to understand the psychology of what is happening worldwide to all governments and nations, you would recognise that, in general, the citizens of every nation are being ignored by those who are supposed to be responsible to them. It is unfortunate that the citizenry of the US has lost sight of the incredible freedoms, privileges and responsibilities inherent within the US constitution. The fact that there is now publicised the above situation and the courts and government will not take the proper action and the citizens are not out protesting to all of their respective representatives is highly indicative of how far the US has fallen. I may live in a country that has no such constitutional protections, but we appear to have a few more actual protections than the citizenry of the US. My own country has endemic problems and in many ways we are following the dark path of the US. If a population cannot stand up and say no to their government then any actions by that government is then acceptable to and condoned by the citizens. It is lamentable that governments and even courts push the idea of "rule of law", when so many laws are either plain stupid or are just downright wrong. "Rule of Law" means that it applies to everyone including the government. If any group is beyond or above the law then you no longer have the situation of "rule of law" applying. In the US, you have a provision of Jury Nullification that is extremely powerful, yet you are not taught about this, nor is it legitimate to discuss the subject in public. The imprisonment of anyone without due process and not sticking the the principle of "not guilty until proven beyond a reasonable doubt" has ensured that the government and its associated LEO's, spy agencies and defence forces can get away with whatever they want. I personally do not like nor consider the ACLU to be an honourable group, but they do go to bat for various people that need help in these kinds of situations, especially when the government exceeds it privileges. On final note, my original comment was intended to stimulate discussion on the limits on what is allowed under the US constitution for all the parties involved. Maybe my point was lost due to not being a US citizen and the interesting fact that many in the US think American is English and so fail to understand such subtle comments.

dang 9y ago

Maybe, but on a much smaller scale, would you please not rant like this on HN? We're trying for a higher quality of discussion here, and the combination of sweeping claims and high indignation points leads lower.

oldandtired 9y ago
Maybe I should have put in the sarc notes. If you took time to understand the psychology of what is happening worldwide to all governments and nations, you would recognise that, in general, the citizens of every nation are being ignored by those who are supposed to be responsible to them. It is unfortunate that the citizenry of the US has lost sight of the incredible freedoms, privileges and responsibilities inherent within the US constitution. The fact that there is now publicised the above situation and the courts and government will not take the proper action and the citizens are not out protesting to all of their respective representatives is highly indicative of how far the US has fallen. I may live in a country that has no such constitutional protections, but we appear to have a few more actual protections than the citizenry of the US. My own country has endemic problems and in many ways we are following the dark path of the US. If a population cannot stand up and say no to their government then any actions by that government is then acceptable to and condoned by the citizens. It is lamentable that governments and even courts push the idea of "rule of law", when so many laws are either plain stupid or are just downright wrong. "Rule of Law" means that it applies to everyone including the government. If any group is beyond or above the law then you no longer have the situation of "rule of law" applying. In the US, you have a provision of Jury Nullification that is extremely powerful, yet you are not taught about this, nor is it legitimate to discuss the subject in public. The imprisonment of anyone without due process and not sticking the the principle of "not guilty until proven beyond a reasonable doubt" has ensured that the government and its associated LEO's, spy agencies and defence forces can get away with whatever they want. I personally do not like nor consider the ACLU to be an honourable group, but they do go to bat for various people that need help in these kinds of situations, especially when the government exceeds it privileges. On final note, my original comment was intended to stimulate discussion on the limits on what is allowed under the US constitution for all the parties involved. Maybe my point was lost due to not being a US citizen and the interesting fact that many in the US think American is English and so fail to understand such subtle comments.