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> The company said salaries paid to its workers were among the highest in the logistic sector and that it also provided some benefits such as private medical in

by Kiro 9y ago

> The company said salaries paid to its workers were among the highest in the logistic sector and that it also provided some benefits such as private medical insurance or money to pay for training programs. I don't understand how you can strike if this is true.

Xylakant 9y ago
First, "the company said" doesn't make that a fact. Maybe explicit or implicit benefits are better at other companies. Second: Why not strike even if this is true? The workers are part of why the company earns money, why not demand their share? It's market forces, after all - workers are just using their bargaining power, just as any company does every time they negotiate a wage with an employee.
SiempreViernes 9y ago
I don't either understand why they strike, but that's because they released their statement as a scanned pdf without ocr and I can't read italian: http://www.cgilpiacenza.it/imgportfolio/14/img_6/img_767969.pdf http://www.cgilpiacenza.it/imgportfolio/14/img_6/img_767969....
- Grobak 9y ago
  The are complaining about forced overtime, night work and working sunday, all time that is paid at minimum salary. They say they have been contracting with the company for over a year and while they are apparently open, in practize they keep taking time and implementing no changes
- mrighele 9y ago
  I will try a summary translation for you (I can't claim to be perfect, it is more union-speak than Italian :-) ): The issues that the unions are complaining about are: * Need for increased wages: the current wages follow the minimum required by the CCNL (national collective contract)[], but working condition are worse than usual: pauseless working shifts, higher productivity required, night shifts spread all year long with 6 days working week in during high peak perios (e.g. Christmas). No productivity bonuses for event such as Christmas or Black Friday. * No ability to balance work life and personal life. The unions say that they are going on strike since for more that one years they have tried to address those issues with Amazon but the latter always delayed any kind of action. [*] CCNL is a contract that is agreed between unions and employers at the national level to guarantee a baseline for all employees in a given sector.
  - azernik 9y ago
    So basically, they're saying Amazon is straight up lying about their wages being the highest in the sector.
    - mrighele 9y ago
      According to a link that someone else posted [1] (Sorry but it's in Italian), they get about 1200 EUR/month (this is net income after taxes, compulsory health insurance and retirement fees). I guess that Amazon is applying the national contract for the commerce sector [2] (PDF, this too in Italian) and the amount is supposed to be about 1250 EUR (you should consider the lower amount, which is what probably applies to a regular warehouse worker with little experience and no management responsability). So from what I understand, the union is right in stating that Amazon's pay is not above the national contract. Keep in mind that there are a number of tricks that can be used in order not the pay the official amount. For example, if you are hired as an apprentice the pay is lower. You can not be apprentice for more than 3 years, but the system can be abused, especially if the turnover is quite high. So in a way Amazon also is right when it says that it pays above average. But in my opinion the salary is not the main issue, if what is said about the working conditions is true (not only in Italy, but also Germany and the US), those should be fixed because I think they are not healthy. [1] http://www.lastampa.it/2017/03/14/edizioni/vercelli/qui-ad-amazon-tre-turni-e-uno-stipendio-da-euro-SRZaDy0KStuNc7C9LEnlbI/pagina.html http://www.lastampa.it/2017/03/14/edizioni/vercelli/qui-ad-a... [2] https://www.cifaitalia.it/index.php?option=com_attachments&task=download&id=4 https://www.cifaitalia.it/index.php?option=com_attachments&t...
      - Kiro 9y ago
        Why do they measure it by net income? Is everyone paying the same taxes in Italy? In my country you measure everything by gross income.
toyg 9y ago
This is what the company says, not necessarily the whole truth (how many employees got these benefits?). Besides, things like "private medical insurance" are meaningless in Northern Italy, where the regional health service is either free or very low-cost and delivers excellent levels of care. I'm surprised they are even mentioned as important benefits; either the person speaking to reporters is not Italian, or they are trying to target the story to non-Italian audiences. More meaningful benefits in Italy would be guaranteed bonuses ("tredicesima", "quattordicesima") or short hours.
- bonzini 9y ago
  If they are employed under the commerce contact, they have two guaranteed bonuses.
tedmiston 9y ago
It could be that they define logistics sector very broadly intentionally so that it includes a high number of low pay workers, such as those making minimum wage. Or, how Amazon defines the aggregate of "salaries paid to its workers" — average, median, max, etc? I'm generally skeptical of hand wavy claims that like this that shy far away from real numbers.
plandis 9y ago
It’s simple economics. The workers believe that they have the leverage to demand more pay. Even if they are making the most of any non-skilled labor with leverage wouldn’t you try to make more?

by Kiro 9y ago

Xylakant 9y ago

First, "the company said" doesn't make that a fact. Maybe explicit or implicit benefits are better at other companies. Second: Why not strike even if this is true? The workers are part of why the company earns money, why not demand their share? It's market forces, after all - workers are just using their bargaining power, just as any company does every time they negotiate a wage with an employee.

SiempreViernes 9y ago

I don't either understand why they strike, but that's because they released their statement as a scanned pdf without ocr and I can't read italian: http://www.cgilpiacenza.it/imgportfolio/14/img_6/img_767969.pdf http://www.cgilpiacenza.it/imgportfolio/14/img_6/img_767969....

Grobak 9y ago
The are complaining about forced overtime, night work and working sunday, all time that is paid at minimum salary. They say they have been contracting with the company for over a year and while they are apparently open, in practize they keep taking time and implementing no changes
mrighele 9y ago
I will try a summary translation for you (I can't claim to be perfect, it is more union-speak than Italian :-) ): The issues that the unions are complaining about are: * Need for increased wages: the current wages follow the minimum required by the CCNL (national collective contract)[], but working condition are worse than usual: pauseless working shifts, higher productivity required, night shifts spread all year long with 6 days working week in during high peak perios (e.g. Christmas). No productivity bonuses for event such as Christmas or Black Friday. * No ability to balance work life and personal life. The unions say that they are going on strike since for more that one years they have tried to address those issues with Amazon but the latter always delayed any kind of action. [*] CCNL is a contract that is agreed between unions and employers at the national level to guarantee a baseline for all employees in a given sector.
- azernik 9y ago
  So basically, they're saying Amazon is straight up lying about their wages being the highest in the sector.
  - mrighele 9y ago
    According to a link that someone else posted [1] (Sorry but it's in Italian), they get about 1200 EUR/month (this is net income after taxes, compulsory health insurance and retirement fees). I guess that Amazon is applying the national contract for the commerce sector [2] (PDF, this too in Italian) and the amount is supposed to be about 1250 EUR (you should consider the lower amount, which is what probably applies to a regular warehouse worker with little experience and no management responsability). So from what I understand, the union is right in stating that Amazon's pay is not above the national contract. Keep in mind that there are a number of tricks that can be used in order not the pay the official amount. For example, if you are hired as an apprentice the pay is lower. You can not be apprentice for more than 3 years, but the system can be abused, especially if the turnover is quite high. So in a way Amazon also is right when it says that it pays above average. But in my opinion the salary is not the main issue, if what is said about the working conditions is true (not only in Italy, but also Germany and the US), those should be fixed because I think they are not healthy. [1] http://www.lastampa.it/2017/03/14/edizioni/vercelli/qui-ad-amazon-tre-turni-e-uno-stipendio-da-euro-SRZaDy0KStuNc7C9LEnlbI/pagina.html http://www.lastampa.it/2017/03/14/edizioni/vercelli/qui-ad-a... [2] https://www.cifaitalia.it/index.php?option=com_attachments&task=download&id=4 https://www.cifaitalia.it/index.php?option=com_attachments&t...
    - Kiro 9y ago
      Why do they measure it by net income? Is everyone paying the same taxes in Italy? In my country you measure everything by gross income.

toyg 9y ago

This is what the company says, not necessarily the whole truth (how many employees got these benefits?). Besides, things like "private medical insurance" are meaningless in Northern Italy, where the regional health service is either free or very low-cost and delivers excellent levels of care. I'm surprised they are even mentioned as important benefits; either the person speaking to reporters is not Italian, or they are trying to target the story to non-Italian audiences. More meaningful benefits in Italy would be guaranteed bonuses ("tredicesima", "quattordicesima") or short hours.

bonzini 9y ago
If they are employed under the commerce contact, they have two guaranteed bonuses.

tedmiston 9y ago

It could be that they define logistics sector very broadly intentionally so that it includes a high number of low pay workers, such as those making minimum wage. Or, how Amazon defines the aggregate of "salaries paid to its workers" — average, median, max, etc? I'm generally skeptical of hand wavy claims that like this that shy far away from real numbers.

plandis 9y ago

It’s simple economics. The workers believe that they have the leverage to demand more pay. Even if they are making the most of any non-skilled labor with leverage wouldn’t you try to make more?