5 ms·

Most countries like to copy the most successful country on Earth. You probably think of things like software patents, that were rejected in the EU. But that was

by DiThi 9y ago

Most countries like to copy the most successful country on Earth. You probably think of things like software patents, that were rejected in the EU. But that was a very long fight! I hope we don't even have to _start_ the net neutrality fight in the EU, by winning it outside.

StavrosK 9y ago
Copy the most successful country in the world? Who would want a great firewall?
- DiThi 9y ago
  Maybe that's the plan in the USA... Without NN it's easier than with NN.
  - libertyEQ 9y ago
    Are you sure your logic is sound here(?): The great firewall and net neutrality are both examples of the government regulating the internet. Edit: Just to be clear, I'm sure we all agree that our ISPs should offer neutral transmission of packets without deference to source/destination or protocol/port.
    - DiThi 9y ago
      Both regulate the internet, but in complete opposite ways: Net neutrality is the default state of computer networks (a packet is a packet), and protecting it forbids discrimination by source, destination or contents. The great firewall discriminates by source, destination or contents. One of the main arguments against net neutrality is disallowing offering different speed or latency depending on the type of service (VoIP, gaming, downloads), but that's false, because you can do that without looking at the source, destination or contents; you just have to compare them with other packets (as opposed to comparing them to a pre-made list).
- libertyEQ 9y ago
  Sorry to sound like a nationalist here (i'm not), but the US has 1/3rd the population of China yet still has the largest economy, and the goto reserve currency. China actually has an ownership stake in all of their IT companies. Contrary to a sibling comment, NN paves the way for the government to regulate what a private company can do with their IT assets, and therefore a great firewall situation.
  - wongarsu 9y ago
    >but the US has 1/3rd the population of China yet still has the largest economy USA is first by Nominal GDP, but second by PPP GDP (or third if you count the EU). I wouldn't declare a definitive winner based on that. And it's better to leave population out of that, because per capita the US is far behind countries like Norway or Switzerland, and at only half the GDP of Luxembourg (both nominal and PPP).
    - libertyEQ 9y ago
      You people are unbelievable. Please tell me about the last tech startup from Switzerland or Luxembourg... I'm not trying to declare some definitive "winner" here, but if you don't recognize which country is clearly dominant in the world, I can't help you.
Sir_Substance 9y ago
>Most countries like to copy the most successful country on Earth. By what criteria is the USA "most successful country on earth"? Also, by "most countries" you mean "countries with legal codes even vaguely compatible with Westminster-derived legal concepts" which is in no way "most countries" in a global sense, right?
- DiThi 9y ago
  > By what criteria is the USA "most successful country on earth"? Power, influence, GDP. Things that matter to politicians, which are the ones that get to choose these matters.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - mfukar 9y ago
    The FCC are appointees, not elected.
  - sundaeofshock 9y ago
    US soft power and influence are waning (e.g. gutting if the state department) and the US consumer is about to take a hit with a massive transfer of wealth to the super rich. Even with the hard military power, I don’t see how the US is the “most successful country on earth”.
    - ShabbosGoy 9y ago
      Net neutrality has nothing to do with the consumer. Very specifically, it has to do with peering and PNIs. There's a reason why NN is not a grassroots movement - it's literally corrupt corporations fighting each other over regulatory capture.
      - libertyEQ 9y ago
        You make this claim as if it is a fact, and various Americans cannot have different points of view. I believe heavily in the ideas of individual liberty and private property. Even though I'm a nobody, in fly-over country does not mean I have not researched the underlying principles, and have not independently come to the same conclusion as these corporate conglomerate broadband providers. These ISPs are insanely jealous of FANG.
qanjl 9y ago
>Most countries like to copy the most successful country on Earth. Countries with free and universal healthcare: 117. Countries with free (but not universal) healthcare: 39. Countries with universal (but not free) healthcare: 2. Countries who copied the USA in having neither free nor universal healthcare: 42. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_universal_health_care https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_univers... Countries who voted in favour of the United Nations resolution “Combating glorification of Nazism, Neo-Nazism and other practices that contribute to fuelling contemporary forms of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance”: 131. Countries who abstained from voting: 48. Countries who copied the USA and voted against the resolution: 2. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-un-nazi-glorification-resolution-vote-against-free-speech-far-right-white-supremacist-neo-alt-a8066761.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-un-nazi-... Number of countries who copy the USA and spend more than more than 4.1% if their budgets on military expenditures: China, who spends 13.0%. USA spends 36.0% https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2017/04/24/the-top-15-countries-for-military-expenditure-in-2016-infographic/#27d96f2343f3 https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2017/04/24/the-to... Number of countries who copy the US policy of not guaranteeing paid maternal leave: 2. https://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/reports/us0211webwcover.pdf https://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/reports/us0211webwco...
- DiThi 9y ago
  My choice of words may not be good, but other countries (esp. allies) copied MANY more things than things they didn't copy, esp. with topics related to NN... Copyright law, patents, free speech, and internet itself... and the fight against software patents was long and difficult.
  - qanjl 9y ago
    yeah, I was being a bit flippant... You are definitely right that those in other countries with anti-NN agenda's will use this to advance their cause.
    - libertyEQ 9y ago

by DiThi 9y ago

StavrosK 9y ago

Copy the most successful country in the world? Who would want a great firewall?

DiThi 9y ago
Maybe that's the plan in the USA... Without NN it's easier than with NN.
- libertyEQ 9y ago
  Are you sure your logic is sound here(?): The great firewall and net neutrality are both examples of the government regulating the internet. Edit: Just to be clear, I'm sure we all agree that our ISPs should offer neutral transmission of packets without deference to source/destination or protocol/port.
  - DiThi 9y ago
    Both regulate the internet, but in complete opposite ways: Net neutrality is the default state of computer networks (a packet is a packet), and protecting it forbids discrimination by source, destination or contents. The great firewall discriminates by source, destination or contents. One of the main arguments against net neutrality is disallowing offering different speed or latency depending on the type of service (VoIP, gaming, downloads), but that's false, because you can do that without looking at the source, destination or contents; you just have to compare them with other packets (as opposed to comparing them to a pre-made list).
libertyEQ 9y ago
Sorry to sound like a nationalist here (i'm not), but the US has 1/3rd the population of China yet still has the largest economy, and the goto reserve currency. China actually has an ownership stake in all of their IT companies. Contrary to a sibling comment, NN paves the way for the government to regulate what a private company can do with their IT assets, and therefore a great firewall situation.
- wongarsu 9y ago
  >but the US has 1/3rd the population of China yet still has the largest economy USA is first by Nominal GDP, but second by PPP GDP (or third if you count the EU). I wouldn't declare a definitive winner based on that. And it's better to leave population out of that, because per capita the US is far behind countries like Norway or Switzerland, and at only half the GDP of Luxembourg (both nominal and PPP).
  - libertyEQ 9y ago
    You people are unbelievable. Please tell me about the last tech startup from Switzerland or Luxembourg... I'm not trying to declare some definitive "winner" here, but if you don't recognize which country is clearly dominant in the world, I can't help you.

Sir_Substance 9y ago

>Most countries like to copy the most successful country on Earth. By what criteria is the USA "most successful country on earth"? Also, by "most countries" you mean "countries with legal codes even vaguely compatible with Westminster-derived legal concepts" which is in no way "most countries" in a global sense, right?

DiThi 9y ago
> By what criteria is the USA "most successful country on earth"? Power, influence, GDP. Things that matter to politicians, which are the ones that get to choose these matters.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- mfukar 9y ago
  The FCC are appointees, not elected.
- sundaeofshock 9y ago
  US soft power and influence are waning (e.g. gutting if the state department) and the US consumer is about to take a hit with a massive transfer of wealth to the super rich. Even with the hard military power, I don’t see how the US is the “most successful country on earth”.
  - ShabbosGoy 9y ago
    Net neutrality has nothing to do with the consumer. Very specifically, it has to do with peering and PNIs. There's a reason why NN is not a grassroots movement - it's literally corrupt corporations fighting each other over regulatory capture.
    - libertyEQ 9y ago
      You make this claim as if it is a fact, and various Americans cannot have different points of view. I believe heavily in the ideas of individual liberty and private property. Even though I'm a nobody, in fly-over country does not mean I have not researched the underlying principles, and have not independently come to the same conclusion as these corporate conglomerate broadband providers. These ISPs are insanely jealous of FANG.

qanjl 9y ago

>Most countries like to copy the most successful country on Earth. Countries with free and universal healthcare: 117. Countries with free (but not universal) healthcare: 39. Countries with universal (but not free) healthcare: 2. Countries who copied the USA in having neither free nor universal healthcare: 42. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_universal_health_care https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_univers... Countries who voted in favour of the United Nations resolution “Combating glorification of Nazism, Neo-Nazism and other practices that contribute to fuelling contemporary forms of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance”: 131. Countries who abstained from voting: 48. Countries who copied the USA and voted against the resolution: 2. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-un-nazi-glorification-resolution-vote-against-free-speech-far-right-white-supremacist-neo-alt-a8066761.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-un-nazi-... Number of countries who copy the USA and spend more than more than 4.1% if their budgets on military expenditures: China, who spends 13.0%. USA spends 36.0% https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2017/04/24/the-top-15-countries-for-military-expenditure-in-2016-infographic/#27d96f2343f3 https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2017/04/24/the-to... Number of countries who copy the US policy of not guaranteeing paid maternal leave: 2. https://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/reports/us0211webwcover.pdf https://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/reports/us0211webwco...

DiThi 9y ago
My choice of words may not be good, but other countries (esp. allies) copied MANY more things than things they didn't copy, esp. with topics related to NN... Copyright law, patents, free speech, and internet itself... and the fight against software patents was long and difficult.
- qanjl 9y ago
  yeah, I was being a bit flippant... You are definitely right that those in other countries with anti-NN agenda's will use this to advance their cause.
  - libertyEQ 9y ago