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Let's be clear on something. "The Internet" doesn't care how Americans go about ruining their economy by prioritizing certain network traffic. As a Dutchie my I

Let's be clear on something. "The Internet" doesn't care how Americans go about ruining their economy by prioritizing certain network traffic. As a Dutchie my Internet is largely unaffected by the FCC. If anything the FCC rejecting net neutrality may be a boon for investment in EU startups and might actually benefit the EU tech sector. So go right ahead and take a crap on yourself America. But let's be clear that the FCC has nothing to do with "The Internet". They're strictly an American affliction.

bringtheaction 9y ago
When the Americans successfully ruin NN for themselves they might inspire other countries to follow though.
- ivm 9y ago
  Netherlands has a net neutrality law since 2012, Chile – since 2010.
akerro 9y ago
>As a Dutchie my Internet is largely unaffected by the FCC. You can't be more wrong. Since Netflix, Amazon, youporn, imgur, reddit will be affected by this and they will have to pay more to keep their bandwidth on the same level as now, or slower by only 10% (hey, they could slow down their network links by 60%, but since they pay 20M per year, its slower by only 10%!) you as the end, you the end consumer will have to pay for this more. It doesn't matter where you live, as long as you use any of US internet services, you will pay for this more, sooner or later.
- noncoml 9y ago
  His Internet will still not be affected. The Internet is not just Facebook, reddit, google, youporn and Netflix or the dozen or so popular companies.
  - Fredej 9y ago
    Not to mention that most of those have servers in the EU which will not be affected by this. Sure they could raise prices there, but since this would just subsidize US costs a local competitor would have a competitive advantage. What this non-Net Neutrality does is largely saying "if you want to build an internet-based startup the US may not be the place for you".
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- nothrabannosir 9y ago
  Are you saying it will create positive competitive edge for companies from Holland?
- dozzie 9y ago
  >> As a Dutchie my Internet is largely unaffected by the FCC. > You can't be more wrong. Since Netflix, Amazon, youporn, imgur, reddit will be affected by this The same Netflix that reportedly has very poor show selection outside US? The same Amazon that has its data centers all over the world? And the three sites that are a pastime of little use and importance? You need to do much better job at selecting examples to make your point compelling.
- wastedhours 9y ago
  I don't think you're in opposition - the argument being, what's going to happen to the location of those services if they're held to ransom by new data transfer fees? Move them to another jurisdiction without them. Investment into the EU (in the form of datacenters, locating jobs to prove the work is done there, and the transit costs in the new location). That being said, the cynic in me agrees that broadly you're right, and whatever the companies do to mitigate the effects of it by moving hosting/transfer elsewhere, they'll use this as an excuse to jack the prices up regardless.
- Arnt 9y ago
  Traceroute from Germany shows that none of leave continental Europe, at least not this morning. Are you suggesting that they'll cross-subsidise? That they will raise their euro-denominated prices in order to compensate for increased costs in the US? They might. Of course. Vendors will raise prices where they think the market will bear it. But it seems strange to assume that by default, vendors will respond to raised costs in one market by raising prices in another.
- _0ffh 9y ago
  Well, the servers even of USian internet services need not be located in data centers in the US. So we'll just add the emigration of data centers to the list of negative consequences for the US.
- pnutjam 9y ago
  Not really, these charges were be born by the consumer. This is about the ability to offer consumer tiers. Sure there might be companies that pay the consumer fee to be included, like QVC did to be on everyone's cable.
- tluyben2 9y ago
  > Since Netflix, Amazon, The thing is, that if that would happen, a lot of people who got onto Netflix/Amazon for streaming content because it's a good convenience/price ratio, will simply revert to illegal downloads from local servers if the prices go up much. I recommended Netflix to people here in my poor farmer village and they got off it again and went back to illegal download simply because they did not want to pay the same price Americans pay while getting much less (quality) content.
- rebuilder 9y ago
  So those companies move their servers out of the USA, which would be good anyway, or their competitirs get an edge.
DiThi 9y ago
Most countries like to copy the most successful country on Earth. You probably think of things like software patents, that were rejected in the EU. But that was a very long fight! I hope we don't even have to _start_ the net neutrality fight in the EU, by winning it outside.
- StavrosK 9y ago
  Copy the most successful country in the world? Who would want a great firewall?
  - DiThi 9y ago
    Maybe that's the plan in the USA... Without NN it's easier than with NN.
    - libertyEQ 9y ago
      Are you sure your logic is sound here(?): The great firewall and net neutrality are both examples of the government regulating the internet. Edit: Just to be clear, I'm sure we all agree that our ISPs should offer neutral transmission of packets without deference to source/destination or protocol/port.
      - DiThi 9y ago
        Both regulate the internet, but in complete opposite ways: Net neutrality is the default state of computer networks (a packet is a packet), and protecting it forbids discrimination by source, destination or contents. The great firewall discriminates by source, destination or contents. One of the main arguments against net neutrality is disallowing offering different speed or latency depending on the type of service (VoIP, gaming, downloads), but that's false, because you can do that without looking at the source, destination or contents; you just have to compare them with other packets (as opposed to comparing them to a pre-made list).
  - libertyEQ 9y ago
    Sorry to sound like a nationalist here (i'm not), but the US has 1/3rd the population of China yet still has the largest economy, and the goto reserve currency. China actually has an ownership stake in all of their IT companies. Contrary to a sibling comment, NN paves the way for the government to regulate what a private company can do with their IT assets, and therefore a great firewall situation.
musage 9y ago
> As a Dutchie my Internet is largely unaffected by the FCC. Which in turn doesn't affect my outlook or my agreement with GP. I don't want to convince you either, I just want to route around you.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
curtisblaine 9y ago
From what I understand you will still be put in the slow lane if you're a Dutch startup offering services to Americans. and the US market is not exactly small. It's a loss for the Internet as a whole, not only the USA.
- pyvpx 9y ago
  the EU market isn't exactly small, either. it is smaller, but not small.
  - curtisblaine 9y ago
    Which means you're going to be in the slow lane for roughly more than a half of your market.
aeontech 9y ago
Your internet will not be affected for exactly as long as it takes local providers to see the proof of concept and financial benefits and lobby your government to pass similar regulation, their efforts now bolstered by the ability to point to the US as a “successful” forerunner.

bringtheaction 9y ago

When the Americans successfully ruin NN for themselves they might inspire other countries to follow though.

ivm 9y ago
Netherlands has a net neutrality law since 2012, Chile – since 2010.

akerro 9y ago

>As a Dutchie my Internet is largely unaffected by the FCC. You can't be more wrong. Since Netflix, Amazon, youporn, imgur, reddit will be affected by this and they will have to pay more to keep their bandwidth on the same level as now, or slower by only 10% (hey, they could slow down their network links by 60%, but since they pay 20M per year, its slower by only 10%!) you as the end, you the end consumer will have to pay for this more. It doesn't matter where you live, as long as you use any of US internet services, you will pay for this more, sooner or later.

noncoml 9y ago
His Internet will still not be affected. The Internet is not just Facebook, reddit, google, youporn and Netflix or the dozen or so popular companies.
- Fredej 9y ago
  Not to mention that most of those have servers in the EU which will not be affected by this. Sure they could raise prices there, but since this would just subsidize US costs a local competitor would have a competitive advantage. What this non-Net Neutrality does is largely saying "if you want to build an internet-based startup the US may not be the place for you".
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
nothrabannosir 9y ago
Are you saying it will create positive competitive edge for companies from Holland?
dozzie 9y ago
>> As a Dutchie my Internet is largely unaffected by the FCC. > You can't be more wrong. Since Netflix, Amazon, youporn, imgur, reddit will be affected by this The same Netflix that reportedly has very poor show selection outside US? The same Amazon that has its data centers all over the world? And the three sites that are a pastime of little use and importance? You need to do much better job at selecting examples to make your point compelling.
wastedhours 9y ago
I don't think you're in opposition - the argument being, what's going to happen to the location of those services if they're held to ransom by new data transfer fees? Move them to another jurisdiction without them. Investment into the EU (in the form of datacenters, locating jobs to prove the work is done there, and the transit costs in the new location). That being said, the cynic in me agrees that broadly you're right, and whatever the companies do to mitigate the effects of it by moving hosting/transfer elsewhere, they'll use this as an excuse to jack the prices up regardless.
Arnt 9y ago
Traceroute from Germany shows that none of leave continental Europe, at least not this morning. Are you suggesting that they'll cross-subsidise? That they will raise their euro-denominated prices in order to compensate for increased costs in the US? They might. Of course. Vendors will raise prices where they think the market will bear it. But it seems strange to assume that by default, vendors will respond to raised costs in one market by raising prices in another.
_0ffh 9y ago
Well, the servers even of USian internet services need not be located in data centers in the US. So we'll just add the emigration of data centers to the list of negative consequences for the US.
pnutjam 9y ago
Not really, these charges were be born by the consumer. This is about the ability to offer consumer tiers. Sure there might be companies that pay the consumer fee to be included, like QVC did to be on everyone's cable.
tluyben2 9y ago
> Since Netflix, Amazon, The thing is, that if that would happen, a lot of people who got onto Netflix/Amazon for streaming content because it's a good convenience/price ratio, will simply revert to illegal downloads from local servers if the prices go up much. I recommended Netflix to people here in my poor farmer village and they got off it again and went back to illegal download simply because they did not want to pay the same price Americans pay while getting much less (quality) content.
rebuilder 9y ago
So those companies move their servers out of the USA, which would be good anyway, or their competitirs get an edge.

DiThi 9y ago

Most countries like to copy the most successful country on Earth. You probably think of things like software patents, that were rejected in the EU. But that was a very long fight! I hope we don't even have to _start_ the net neutrality fight in the EU, by winning it outside.

StavrosK 9y ago
Copy the most successful country in the world? Who would want a great firewall?
- DiThi 9y ago
  Maybe that's the plan in the USA... Without NN it's easier than with NN.
  - libertyEQ 9y ago
    Are you sure your logic is sound here(?): The great firewall and net neutrality are both examples of the government regulating the internet. Edit: Just to be clear, I'm sure we all agree that our ISPs should offer neutral transmission of packets without deference to source/destination or protocol/port.
    - DiThi 9y ago
      Both regulate the internet, but in complete opposite ways: Net neutrality is the default state of computer networks (a packet is a packet), and protecting it forbids discrimination by source, destination or contents. The great firewall discriminates by source, destination or contents. One of the main arguments against net neutrality is disallowing offering different speed or latency depending on the type of service (VoIP, gaming, downloads), but that's false, because you can do that without looking at the source, destination or contents; you just have to compare them with other packets (as opposed to comparing them to a pre-made list).
- libertyEQ 9y ago
  Sorry to sound like a nationalist here (i'm not), but the US has 1/3rd the population of China yet still has the largest economy, and the goto reserve currency. China actually has an ownership stake in all of their IT companies. Contrary to a sibling comment, NN paves the way for the government to regulate what a private company can do with their IT assets, and therefore a great firewall situation.

musage 9y ago

> As a Dutchie my Internet is largely unaffected by the FCC. Which in turn doesn't affect my outlook or my agreement with GP. I don't want to convince you either, I just want to route around you.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

curtisblaine 9y ago

From what I understand you will still be put in the slow lane if you're a Dutch startup offering services to Americans. and the US market is not exactly small. It's a loss for the Internet as a whole, not only the USA.

pyvpx 9y ago
the EU market isn't exactly small, either. it is smaller, but not small.
- curtisblaine 9y ago
  Which means you're going to be in the slow lane for roughly more than a half of your market.

aeontech 9y ago

Your internet will not be affected for exactly as long as it takes local providers to see the proof of concept and financial benefits and lobby your government to pass similar regulation, their efforts now bolstered by the ability to point to the US as a “successful” forerunner.