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Yes, it's very impressive, and the purpose of the whole post IMO is part of the marketing (call me evil). Also if he didn't quit his job, he probably wouldn't b

Yes, it's very impressive, and the purpose of the whole post IMO is part of the marketing (call me evil). Also if he didn't quit his job, he probably wouldn't be able to get this far within a year.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
thinkloop 9y ago
It is for sure, and it's fine, the amounts of money being mentioned are only material if you picked the short geoeconomic straw.
stupidcar 9y ago
He was only a month away from completing the game when he quit. If he'd worked evenings and weekends, and used some vacation time, it seems like he could have easily finished and released the game by early next year. That way he wouldn't have to bet everything on the "magic unicorn" of instant Steam success. I sometimes think people starting businesses take on an unnecessary amount of risk out of some unconscious belief that, by doing so, it will "prove" to God or the universe, or maybe just themselves, that they really want it.
- virgilp 9y ago
  From the name, I'm guessing he's Romanian; it's not illegal here to have a contract that states "everything you create, even in the spare time, is the company's property, unless you get written manager approval first". I have exactly such a contract. And yes I know it would be illegal in the US. (I'm not exactly sure how enforceable such a clause would really be, but that's another story, and I really understand him not wanting to take the risk)
  - Gaelan 9y ago
    US has similar contacts actually.
    - em3rgent0rdr 9y ago
      examples?
      - SyneRyder 9y ago
        It's an old link, but here's Apple enforcing that against a developer who developed an app in their spare time, and Apple wanting to take ownership of the app & source code: https://web.archive.org/web/20060316084454/http://www.thinksecret.com/news/netflixfanatic.html https://web.archive.org/web/20060316084454/http://www.thinks...
        em3rgent0rdr 9y ago
        That app is competing with Apple's iTunes, so that seems more like a non-compete issue. I'd like to see an example of an employee developing something completely unrelated to his employer's business.
        virgilp 9y ago
        Well, this guy was working in the gaming industry...
      - chucksmash 9y ago
        It's quite common. My last company required IP assignment of all works that were: - created on company hardware or - related to the business in which the company engages ...and that struck me as eminently reasonable as a default. My current company defaults to everything full stop. I'm pretty sure this is going to be the default for most knowledge work in any state that hasn't specifically ruled such provisions unenforceable.
    - virgilp 9y ago
      Strange. My US colleagues were surprised I have this clause and said it would be blatantly illegal in California. Guess they were wrong :)
  - maccard 9y ago
    Surely that clause would still apply if he made 90% of the game while employed by the company?
    - virgilp 9y ago
      Yes but my understanding is that he (claims to have) coded it all in one month. After resigning. Quite honestly, it sounds hard, but not impossible. This is not WOW we're talking about.
  - mdpopescu 9y ago
    Actually, I'm pretty sure it's the other way around. That is the default for the US (see [1]) but I believe it's unenforceable in the EU. [1] https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2016/12/09/developers-side-projects/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2016/12/09/developers-side-pr...
    - brutus1213 9y ago
      Nice link. I like Joel's writing. Haven't kept track of it in a while. The last para really rubbed me the wrong way ("sleeping with boss"). Most likely it was in jest but we need to have a zero tolerance to this kind of crap now (men and women).
      - SomeStupidPoint 9y ago
        Wait... you're offended by a non-gendered joke about the fact that interpersonal relationships in an office environment can impact the enforcement of contracts against you? Do you just look for things to be offended by, or is there a particular reason?
        WillReplyfFood 9y ago
        The power of the witchhunt attracts a certain kind of creature.
        rainbowmverse 9y ago
        You sound way more offended than the person you replied to. All I see up there is a harmless, well-intentioned critique with a perfectly civil tone. Meanwhile, you sound angry.
    - mattmanser 9y ago
      I haven't looked into it extensively, but I believe the EU has no laws about that. It's down to the individual countries, which have differing employment laws.
  - ryanlol 9y ago
    This is normal, and unenforceable, almost everywhere.
  - discordianfish 9y ago
    This similar in in Germany: It's not "everything is company property" but you need to ask permission to do "work" outside your employement, need to disclose if you create/"invent" something and allow the company to aquire your invention. Frankly, no idea how/if that will be enforced but something along these lines were in most contracted I had and it always made me feel uncomfortable.
    - teniutza 9y ago
      I did some research about "work outside your employment" in Germany and found that the main thing is about the amount of hours one can (or is allowed) to work. The idea here was that working more than the "normal" 8 hours a day, would have a negative effect on the actual job, i.e. you're too tired to do your job properly if you work an additional 4 hours at home. In plain English, if you work additional hours daily on a side project, you'll be too tired the next day at work, hurting your productiveness (and upsetting your employer...). I did not find anything relating to weekends and/or to software created in one's spare time. Are you aware of any specific laws concerning this whole thing?
    - k3a 9y ago
      If that's really true then I am glad I don't live there. Sounds like coporations want to own their workers completely. O_O

Yes, it's very impressive, and the purpose of the whole post IMO is part of the marketing (call me evil). Also if he didn't quit his job, he probably wouldn't be able to get this far within a year.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

thinkloop 9y ago

It is for sure, and it's fine, the amounts of money being mentioned are only material if you picked the short geoeconomic straw.

stupidcar 9y ago

He was only a month away from completing the game when he quit. If he'd worked evenings and weekends, and used some vacation time, it seems like he could have easily finished and released the game by early next year. That way he wouldn't have to bet everything on the "magic unicorn" of instant Steam success. I sometimes think people starting businesses take on an unnecessary amount of risk out of some unconscious belief that, by doing so, it will "prove" to God or the universe, or maybe just themselves, that they really want it.

virgilp 9y ago
From the name, I'm guessing he's Romanian; it's not illegal here to have a contract that states "everything you create, even in the spare time, is the company's property, unless you get written manager approval first". I have exactly such a contract. And yes I know it would be illegal in the US. (I'm not exactly sure how enforceable such a clause would really be, but that's another story, and I really understand him not wanting to take the risk)
- Gaelan 9y ago
  US has similar contacts actually.
  - em3rgent0rdr 9y ago
    examples?
    - SyneRyder 9y ago
      It's an old link, but here's Apple enforcing that against a developer who developed an app in their spare time, and Apple wanting to take ownership of the app & source code: https://web.archive.org/web/20060316084454/http://www.thinksecret.com/news/netflixfanatic.html https://web.archive.org/web/20060316084454/http://www.thinks...
      - em3rgent0rdr 9y ago
        That app is competing with Apple's iTunes, so that seems more like a non-compete issue. I'd like to see an example of an employee developing something completely unrelated to his employer's business.
        virgilp 9y ago
        Well, this guy was working in the gaming industry...
    - chucksmash 9y ago
      It's quite common. My last company required IP assignment of all works that were: - created on company hardware or - related to the business in which the company engages ...and that struck me as eminently reasonable as a default. My current company defaults to everything full stop. I'm pretty sure this is going to be the default for most knowledge work in any state that hasn't specifically ruled such provisions unenforceable.
  - virgilp 9y ago
    Strange. My US colleagues were surprised I have this clause and said it would be blatantly illegal in California. Guess they were wrong :)
- maccard 9y ago
  Surely that clause would still apply if he made 90% of the game while employed by the company?
  - virgilp 9y ago
    Yes but my understanding is that he (claims to have) coded it all in one month. After resigning. Quite honestly, it sounds hard, but not impossible. This is not WOW we're talking about.
- mdpopescu 9y ago
  Actually, I'm pretty sure it's the other way around. That is the default for the US (see [1]) but I believe it's unenforceable in the EU. [1] https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2016/12/09/developers-side-projects/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2016/12/09/developers-side-pr...
  - brutus1213 9y ago
    Nice link. I like Joel's writing. Haven't kept track of it in a while. The last para really rubbed me the wrong way ("sleeping with boss"). Most likely it was in jest but we need to have a zero tolerance to this kind of crap now (men and women).
    - SomeStupidPoint 9y ago
      Wait... you're offended by a non-gendered joke about the fact that interpersonal relationships in an office environment can impact the enforcement of contracts against you? Do you just look for things to be offended by, or is there a particular reason?
      - WillReplyfFood 9y ago
        The power of the witchhunt attracts a certain kind of creature.
      - rainbowmverse 9y ago
        You sound way more offended than the person you replied to. All I see up there is a harmless, well-intentioned critique with a perfectly civil tone. Meanwhile, you sound angry.
  - mattmanser 9y ago
    I haven't looked into it extensively, but I believe the EU has no laws about that. It's down to the individual countries, which have differing employment laws.
- ryanlol 9y ago
  This is normal, and unenforceable, almost everywhere.
- discordianfish 9y ago
  This similar in in Germany: It's not "everything is company property" but you need to ask permission to do "work" outside your employement, need to disclose if you create/"invent" something and allow the company to aquire your invention. Frankly, no idea how/if that will be enforced but something along these lines were in most contracted I had and it always made me feel uncomfortable.
  - teniutza 9y ago
    I did some research about "work outside your employment" in Germany and found that the main thing is about the amount of hours one can (or is allowed) to work. The idea here was that working more than the "normal" 8 hours a day, would have a negative effect on the actual job, i.e. you're too tired to do your job properly if you work an additional 4 hours at home. In plain English, if you work additional hours daily on a side project, you'll be too tired the next day at work, hurting your productiveness (and upsetting your employer...). I did not find anything relating to weekends and/or to software created in one's spare time. Are you aware of any specific laws concerning this whole thing?
  - k3a 9y ago
    If that's really true then I am glad I don't live there. Sounds like coporations want to own their workers completely. O_O