4 ms·

"Of all countries on planet earth, it's frankly nothing less than comedy that we're seeing 'this eu realpolitik is unfair!' arguments from the UK. " Nobody is

"Of all countries on planet earth, it's frankly nothing less than comedy that we're seeing 'this eu realpolitik is unfair!' arguments from the UK. " Nobody is claiming 'unfair' - we're pointing out that the EU is not this bullst idea of 'Europeans coming together in solidarity' it's just a selfish entity, mostly for the benefit of the elites. And by the way - it's not 'realpolitik' - it's stupid-politik - because 'punishing' leavers may create some kind of barrier to others thinking about it - but in reality - it exposes the schizophrenia if the EU for what it is. A 'strong' EU is what others want to join. Only weak and inauthentic entities like the Soviet Union and the EU need to 'punish' people for daring to leave. Can you think of other movements that punish people for leaving? China? Cuba? Soviets? North Korea? The EU and UK should seek a 'good deal' with one another. The EU is afraid of falling apart and is seeking vengeance. The EU is fundamentally broken and were it to have developed a degree of self awareness, would have remedied the issues and there would be no 'right wing movement' in the EU - it would not have had a chance to exist. "Whether you allow or disallow migrations, allow or disallow free trade, things have changed and they'll never be the same again. " Nobody is denying this reality. "disallow free trade" The UK wants free trade with the EU, it is the EU which is denying the situation. As far as migration - the UK accepts considerably more migrants only only from EU countries - but also from non EU countries than effectively any nation in the EU.

geezerjay 9y ago
> we're pointing out that the EU is not this bullst idea of 'Europeans coming together in solidarity' it's just a selfish entity, mostly for the benefit of the elites. But you do agree that's bullshit as well, don't you? I mean, the EU's goals is to serve the collective best interests of all and every single member-state. Now you're seeing a nation that intentionally placed itself out of that privileged group, and you're complaining that their best interests aren't being considered by everyone else. I mean, that's like taking up a spa membership to enjoy massages, then deciding to drop the service, and then complaining that the spa is a selfish entity that caters to the elites just because you expected to keep receiving massages after you got your wish of dropping your membership.
- mobiletelephone 9y ago
  The analogy there is poor.
- Chris2048 9y ago
  > I mean, that's like No, it isn't. Spa membership doesn't dictate what you cannot do outside the spa. Spas do not collude other competing spas to exclude you from interacting with them.
  - geezerjay 9y ago
    That's where you get it wrong. The EU is an association. Every single member agreed to centralised policy stuff because that fits their needs and suits their best interests. One member decided to leave and thus forfeited the privileges available to their members. It's that simple.
    - Chris2048 9y ago
      First, you haven't responded to my points which addressed, specifically, your spa analogy. Second, some privileges are real, and some manufactured to punish outsiders. Prioritization and restrictions on trading with non-EU is an example of this, which addresses the "hypocrisy of protectionism" point. Finally, "because that fits their needs and suits their best interests" who's interest? Brexit voters? They got one vote premised on an EU promising the moon, and little control or feedback sibce then until the recent Brexit vote.
- standupstandup 9y ago
  the EU's goals is to serve the collective best interests of all and every single member-state That's clearly not what it's trying to do right now. For one the UK is still a member state and still paying its dues, but the EU is acting in an extremely hostile way. Unless you reflexively define the best interests of the EU Commission and related institutions as "the best interests of all and every single member state", it is certainly not the case. Consider: The EU is setting things up such that in just over a year trucks will start to pile up at ports, costs will rise across Europe and the UK, many European firms will be cut off from the financing they receive from London, airplanes will be grounded, Irish politics will destabilise due to the introduction of a hard border and that's really just the beginning. None of this is in the interests of any person in any EU member state at all. And it can all be easily avoided. Your spa analogy is very badly off by the way. Trade isn't something countries sell like a product itself, despite the EU's attempts to package it that way. Countries that strike free trade deals do not "buy" them, they negotiate and agree to them. Think about neighbours cooperating more than a consumer buying a product.

geezerjay 9y ago

> we're pointing out that the EU is not this bullst idea of 'Europeans coming together in solidarity' it's just a selfish entity, mostly for the benefit of the elites. But you do agree that's bullshit as well, don't you? I mean, the EU's goals is to serve the collective best interests of all and every single member-state. Now you're seeing a nation that intentionally placed itself out of that privileged group, and you're complaining that their best interests aren't being considered by everyone else. I mean, that's like taking up a spa membership to enjoy massages, then deciding to drop the service, and then complaining that the spa is a selfish entity that caters to the elites just because you expected to keep receiving massages after you got your wish of dropping your membership.

mobiletelephone 9y ago
The analogy there is poor.
Chris2048 9y ago
> I mean, that's like No, it isn't. Spa membership doesn't dictate what you cannot do outside the spa. Spas do not collude other competing spas to exclude you from interacting with them.
- geezerjay 9y ago
  That's where you get it wrong. The EU is an association. Every single member agreed to centralised policy stuff because that fits their needs and suits their best interests. One member decided to leave and thus forfeited the privileges available to their members. It's that simple.
  - Chris2048 9y ago
    First, you haven't responded to my points which addressed, specifically, your spa analogy. Second, some privileges are real, and some manufactured to punish outsiders. Prioritization and restrictions on trading with non-EU is an example of this, which addresses the "hypocrisy of protectionism" point. Finally, "because that fits their needs and suits their best interests" who's interest? Brexit voters? They got one vote premised on an EU promising the moon, and little control or feedback sibce then until the recent Brexit vote.
standupstandup 9y ago
the EU's goals is to serve the collective best interests of all and every single member-state That's clearly not what it's trying to do right now. For one the UK is still a member state and still paying its dues, but the EU is acting in an extremely hostile way. Unless you reflexively define the best interests of the EU Commission and related institutions as "the best interests of all and every single member state", it is certainly not the case. Consider: The EU is setting things up such that in just over a year trucks will start to pile up at ports, costs will rise across Europe and the UK, many European firms will be cut off from the financing they receive from London, airplanes will be grounded, Irish politics will destabilise due to the introduction of a hard border and that's really just the beginning. None of this is in the interests of any person in any EU member state at all. And it can all be easily avoided. Your spa analogy is very badly off by the way. Trade isn't something countries sell like a product itself, despite the EU's attempts to package it that way. Countries that strike free trade deals do not "buy" them, they negotiate and agree to them. Think about neighbours cooperating more than a consumer buying a product.