5 ms·

Fuck that. the people have no right to vote on individual freedoms

by ed 16y ago

eli 16y ago
Here in DC, there was a movement to get a Prop 8 style ballot initiative to overturn our new gay marriage law. Luckily, the drafters of the DC charter had far better foresight than in California. You're simply not allowed to create a ballot initiative that would violate the Human Rights Act. Period. Doesn't matter how many signatures you get. People have no business voting on how we should treat minority groups.
- yummyfajitas 16y ago
  What do you mean by "minority group"? The polygamous, drug users, people who want to rent rather than own, or people who wish to stay single are all minority groups. Do you favor eliminating all laws which discriminate against such people? I suspect you mean a certain types of minority group. If so, could you explain which minority groups deserve the protection you describe, which do not, and why?
  - kjksf 16y ago
    I guess you're trying to characterize laws that happen to apply to a particular subset of population that you'll label a "minority" and characterize them as "discrimination" hence equal them with laws that are really discriminating. The point you're missing is that those other laws are against behaviors that we find bad for society. We don't have laws that discriminate against drug users as a group (e.g. disallowing drug users to enter restaurants), we just have laws that penalize drug use and distribution. Our laws don't discriminate smokers but penalize smoking. Denying marriage to gays discriminates against gays. It doesn't penalize a behavior. This is not a subtle distinction.
    - yummyfajitas 16y ago
      Gays are not denied marriage - there is nothing stopping gays from marrying opposite sex partners. It's true that opposite sex marriage is given a privileged position, and this benefits people who want to engage in it. It's also true that purchasing a home is given a privileged position, and this benefits people who want to buy a home with a mortgage. Thus, denying subsidies to renters (unless they go against their preferences) is discrimination against people who prefer to rent, just as denying marriage to gays (unless they go against their preferences) is discrimination against gays.
      - eli 16y ago
        Sure, and there was nothing stopping blacks from using the water fountain set aside for them. It still wasn't right.
- rubashov 16y ago
  The rich are a minority group. Regressive taxation seems pretty uncontroversial, though highly discriminatory.
Perceval 16y ago
But we did vote on individual freedoms. We voted on every single one in the Constitution and in the Bill of Rights and in all the subsequent amendments. Each and every one required a vote.

Fuck that. the people have no right to vote on individual freedoms

by ed 16y ago

Fuck that. the people have no right to vote on individual freedoms

eli 16y ago

Here in DC, there was a movement to get a Prop 8 style ballot initiative to overturn our new gay marriage law. Luckily, the drafters of the DC charter had far better foresight than in California. You're simply not allowed to create a ballot initiative that would violate the Human Rights Act. Period. Doesn't matter how many signatures you get. People have no business voting on how we should treat minority groups.

yummyfajitas 16y ago
What do you mean by "minority group"? The polygamous, drug users, people who want to rent rather than own, or people who wish to stay single are all minority groups. Do you favor eliminating all laws which discriminate against such people? I suspect you mean a certain types of minority group. If so, could you explain which minority groups deserve the protection you describe, which do not, and why?
- kjksf 16y ago
  I guess you're trying to characterize laws that happen to apply to a particular subset of population that you'll label a "minority" and characterize them as "discrimination" hence equal them with laws that are really discriminating. The point you're missing is that those other laws are against behaviors that we find bad for society. We don't have laws that discriminate against drug users as a group (e.g. disallowing drug users to enter restaurants), we just have laws that penalize drug use and distribution. Our laws don't discriminate smokers but penalize smoking. Denying marriage to gays discriminates against gays. It doesn't penalize a behavior. This is not a subtle distinction.
  - yummyfajitas 16y ago
    Gays are not denied marriage - there is nothing stopping gays from marrying opposite sex partners. It's true that opposite sex marriage is given a privileged position, and this benefits people who want to engage in it. It's also true that purchasing a home is given a privileged position, and this benefits people who want to buy a home with a mortgage. Thus, denying subsidies to renters (unless they go against their preferences) is discrimination against people who prefer to rent, just as denying marriage to gays (unless they go against their preferences) is discrimination against gays.
    - eli 16y ago
      Sure, and there was nothing stopping blacks from using the water fountain set aside for them. It still wasn't right.
rubashov 16y ago
The rich are a minority group. Regressive taxation seems pretty uncontroversial, though highly discriminatory.

Perceval 16y ago

But we did vote on individual freedoms. We voted on every single one in the Constitution and in the Bill of Rights and in all the subsequent amendments. Each and every one required a vote.