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U.S. Bribery Case Sheds Light on Mysterious Chinese Company

48 points by thisisit 9y ago

frisco 9y ago
These are Chinese nationals working for a Chinese company in Africa. Why is the US DOJ involved?
- kazinator 9y ago
  If I were to guess, they have connections to American customers, supplies, investors or whatever who might be implicated in some sort of wrongdoing, breaking American laws. There is no mention in the article of any such thing though. Basically, there are just these tidbits: 1. Mr. Ye has rubbed shoulders with some famous Americans, like Allen Greenspan and Henry Kissinger. 2. Mr. Ye's think tank has some relationship with the UN and has organized conferences that that "have featured senior American military officials and Chinese People’s Liberation Army generals." (That being relayed information evidently gleaned from that think tank's website itself.) So I think we have to fall back on general observations about US being the self-appointed policeman to the world. If anyone is bribing anyone's ass anywhere, and it ruffles U.S. feathers for any reason (like some U.S. ventures in that area are disadvantaged), it's a US DOJ matter!
  - whatupmd 9y ago
    It’s stated within the first 4 sentences of the article...
    - kazinator 9y ago
      The part where he flew to New York? So what? It doesn't mention that the meetings involved any Americans, or were about anything dealings in the USA, or involving USA people outside of the USA. (Maybe that is the case, but it's not in this particular article.)
    - frisco 9y ago
      It says the meetings happened at the UN, with which he has an official affiliation. UN headquarters has a special relationship with NY (and the US) and generally there is immunity involved and no ability for the US to refuse a visa. This was a key carve out for locating the UN secretariat in NYC.
      - wavefunction 9y ago
        You can't fly to the UN with your official affiliation to commit crimes. That's not the way that diplomatic immunity works.
        frisco 9y ago
        It really is though. In most cases all they can do is kick you out. In some cases the foreign government can waive immunity to allow prosecution, but it’s rare. This guy wasn’t a diplomat though so diplomatic immunity doesn’t apply. Regardless of that, my understanding from having grown up going to an international school in NYC where most of my friends were there because their parents were assigned to the UN, is that there’s a weaker form of effective immunity that basically is just that the UN grounds are not trivially part of the US. So it’s not clear to me why US bribery laws applied to a foreign national on foreign business inside the UN? My guess is that the practical answer is just that the US are world police and so they do what they want. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplomatic_immunity https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplomatic_immunity
- tryingagainbro 9y ago
  Used US banks, maybe a US based corp was bidding and was harmed by the bribe, the crime was committed /planed in USA...etc etc. But they pass a law and they get you. And the law is legal in USA because the bribe affected commerce, even if you bought a harddrive that crossed state lines while coming to you (not a lawyer, but I think that's FBI's golden goose http://www.heritage.org/the-constitution/report/commerce-commerce-everywhere-the-uses-and-abuses-the-commerce-clause http://www.heritage.org/the-constitution/report/commerce-com... )
thisisit 9y ago
From the article (emphasis mine): > CEFC has risen suddenly from a little known Chinese company to a major player in the global energy business, with investments in Europe, the Middle East, Central Asia and Africa. The whole little known to major player seems to be becoming a recurring theme for Chinese companies.
- baybal2 9y ago
  Nothing surprising. CCP is rather crude in the way they create proxy companies to hide direct involvement of the party. They do not learn that it is always looks suspicious if a never heard of entity begins moving 10 digit sums around.
  - mattnewton 9y ago
    Maybe they don’t learn, maybe they don’t care: it’s how they play ball in their home court, they bet they can do it elsewhere too.
- TaylorGood 9y ago
  A friend operates a real estate development company in a country different than China. He was offered a partnership from a Chinese heir that included endless capital and leveraging the family portfolio as their past experience. Thus, overnight they are a major player developing some of the largest footprints in the country.
t1o5 9y ago
How does this gratify one's intellectual curiosity ? As per the guidelines: On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity. Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Ideological or political battle or talking points. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.
- linkregister 9y ago
  It's relevant as I'm applying to YC18 with Bribely, a bribery-as-a-service app that uses machine learning to discover which official to bribe, then properly launder the sum to avoid regulatory interference. /s
  - mlvljr 9y ago
    But no blockchain to confirm yoour excellent past history of bribes?
  - vithlani 9y ago
    Hahahhahha.....
tryingagainbro 9y ago
Bribes are the greatest investment in third world countries, or almost as profitable as lobbying in USA :). The corrupt PM that demands $50 million for that wireless license or $1 Billion road doesn't care much about the equipment or prices, after all you paid him and he knows you have to make it back. He will remove all your troubles.
- ams6110 9y ago
  In the USA there may be one or two more layers but "lobbying" often boils down to "bribery" in the end. It's just not quite so flagrant.
  - tryingagainbro 9y ago
    Worse since it's legal. With "bribery" at least you risk jail and huge fines.

48 points by thisisit 9y ago

frisco 9y ago

These are Chinese nationals working for a Chinese company in Africa. Why is the US DOJ involved?

kazinator 9y ago
If I were to guess, they have connections to American customers, supplies, investors or whatever who might be implicated in some sort of wrongdoing, breaking American laws. There is no mention in the article of any such thing though. Basically, there are just these tidbits: 1. Mr. Ye has rubbed shoulders with some famous Americans, like Allen Greenspan and Henry Kissinger. 2. Mr. Ye's think tank has some relationship with the UN and has organized conferences that that "have featured senior American military officials and Chinese People’s Liberation Army generals." (That being relayed information evidently gleaned from that think tank's website itself.) So I think we have to fall back on general observations about US being the self-appointed policeman to the world. If anyone is bribing anyone's ass anywhere, and it ruffles U.S. feathers for any reason (like some U.S. ventures in that area are disadvantaged), it's a US DOJ matter!
- whatupmd 9y ago
  It’s stated within the first 4 sentences of the article...
  - kazinator 9y ago
    The part where he flew to New York? So what? It doesn't mention that the meetings involved any Americans, or were about anything dealings in the USA, or involving USA people outside of the USA. (Maybe that is the case, but it's not in this particular article.)
  - frisco 9y ago
    It says the meetings happened at the UN, with which he has an official affiliation. UN headquarters has a special relationship with NY (and the US) and generally there is immunity involved and no ability for the US to refuse a visa. This was a key carve out for locating the UN secretariat in NYC.
    - wavefunction 9y ago
      You can't fly to the UN with your official affiliation to commit crimes. That's not the way that diplomatic immunity works.
      - frisco 9y ago
        It really is though. In most cases all they can do is kick you out. In some cases the foreign government can waive immunity to allow prosecution, but it’s rare. This guy wasn’t a diplomat though so diplomatic immunity doesn’t apply. Regardless of that, my understanding from having grown up going to an international school in NYC where most of my friends were there because their parents were assigned to the UN, is that there’s a weaker form of effective immunity that basically is just that the UN grounds are not trivially part of the US. So it’s not clear to me why US bribery laws applied to a foreign national on foreign business inside the UN? My guess is that the practical answer is just that the US are world police and so they do what they want. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplomatic_immunity https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplomatic_immunity
tryingagainbro 9y ago
Used US banks, maybe a US based corp was bidding and was harmed by the bribe, the crime was committed /planed in USA...etc etc. But they pass a law and they get you. And the law is legal in USA because the bribe affected commerce, even if you bought a harddrive that crossed state lines while coming to you (not a lawyer, but I think that's FBI's golden goose http://www.heritage.org/the-constitution/report/commerce-commerce-everywhere-the-uses-and-abuses-the-commerce-clause http://www.heritage.org/the-constitution/report/commerce-com... )

thisisit 9y ago

From the article (emphasis mine): > CEFC has risen suddenly from a little known Chinese company to a major player in the global energy business, with investments in Europe, the Middle East, Central Asia and Africa. The whole little known to major player seems to be becoming a recurring theme for Chinese companies.

baybal2 9y ago
Nothing surprising. CCP is rather crude in the way they create proxy companies to hide direct involvement of the party. They do not learn that it is always looks suspicious if a never heard of entity begins moving 10 digit sums around.
- mattnewton 9y ago
  Maybe they don’t learn, maybe they don’t care: it’s how they play ball in their home court, they bet they can do it elsewhere too.
TaylorGood 9y ago
A friend operates a real estate development company in a country different than China. He was offered a partnership from a Chinese heir that included endless capital and leveraging the family portfolio as their past experience. Thus, overnight they are a major player developing some of the largest footprints in the country.

t1o5 9y ago

How does this gratify one's intellectual curiosity ? As per the guidelines: On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity. Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Ideological or political battle or talking points. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.

linkregister 9y ago
It's relevant as I'm applying to YC18 with Bribely, a bribery-as-a-service app that uses machine learning to discover which official to bribe, then properly launder the sum to avoid regulatory interference. /s
- mlvljr 9y ago
  But no blockchain to confirm yoour excellent past history of bribes?
- vithlani 9y ago
  Hahahhahha.....

tryingagainbro 9y ago

Bribes are the greatest investment in third world countries, or almost as profitable as lobbying in USA :). The corrupt PM that demands $50 million for that wireless license or $1 Billion road doesn't care much about the equipment or prices, after all you paid him and he knows you have to make it back. He will remove all your troubles.

ams6110 9y ago
In the USA there may be one or two more layers but "lobbying" often boils down to "bribery" in the end. It's just not quite so flagrant.
- tryingagainbro 9y ago
  Worse since it's legal. With "bribery" at least you risk jail and huge fines.