6 ms·

Steve Wozniak On Antennagate, Google And Steve Jobs ( with Video)

31 points by px 16y ago

MaysonL 16y ago
To skip TC: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kole_PzjxKo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kole_PzjxKo and a longer clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RFkv15Ngb0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RFkv15Ngb0
fuzzythinker 16y ago
He may be too close to Apple to realize Apple may be as likely (or more) as Google to be the "Microsoft of the future".
- martythemaniak 16y ago
  I thought that was the most ridiculous quote as well. One company makes an open-source operating system, the other exerts iron-fisted control over what developers and users can do with it's OS.
  - JunkDNA 16y ago
    Your statement is correct, but doesn't tell the whole story. The issue is that Apple's relationship with its customers is simple: we make stuff, you give us money for it. Google's model is more complex: we make stuff, you get it free, but you give us your data. I would much rather exchange money for a product than my personal data. Everything Google does requires me to turn over my data to them so it can be monetized somehow. That's much more Orwellian than anything from MS or Apple.
    - nooneelse 16y ago
      Surely you aren't saying that Apple doesn't know what songs and programs users buy from them or the demographics to target iAds.
      - avdempsey 16y ago
        You can have all the demo information in the world. But if you're a new network with limited inventory, you aren't going to serve fine-tuned relevance.
      - JunkDNA 16y ago
        That's the same data every company has on me. But that sort of thing is limited. Google wants to mine my email, my photos, my calendar, and my documents. They also want to watch everything I read online via RSS. They want to dig into my voicemail on google voice. That is an unprecedented level of intrusion that I'm not sure I want. It is the primary way they make money. So they are forced to dig ever deeper to get better analytics to more narrowly target their ads. The incentives are aligned with them becoming ever more intrusive in their data mining. This level of data gathering makes grocery store shoppers clubs and Apple knowing what music and movies I buy pale in comparison. Here is a thought experiment: if tomorrow, it was announced that Microsoft was going to start mining Outlook calendar data to target Bing ads, what would be the reaction?
    - pavs 16y ago
      > Everything Google does requires me to turn over my data to them so it can be monetized somehow. And Apple (or any other company) doesn't?
    - deleted 16y ago
      [deleted]
- jsz0 16y ago
  Could go either way. Apple would have to move away from their high margins on hardware or license their operating systems and services to become the Microsoft of the Future. They just can't compete on pure volume. Google has made the choice to put their operating system(s) and services onto as many devices as possible to reap the benefits of a massive user base. On the surface that's more compatible with Gate's vision of a Windows PC on every desktop. I always look at it like this: If the iPhone disappeared tomorrow what would happen? We'd all get Android phones, BlackBerries, maybe WM7 phones. The mobile app market would be hurt but it wouldn't collapse because there are alternatives. iTunes? We'd just use NetFlix or Amazon MP3, Zune. If Google Search/Advertising disappeared tomorrow what would happen? Panic. Chaos. The whole Internet economy would collapse. Based on that I feel like Google clearly has its boot on people's necks in a way Apple doesn't. That makes the parallel between Google/Microsoft stronger for me.
sabj 16y ago
For me the real issue with the Antenna4 issue is not to say that Apple makes bad products. It was an example of Apple treating its customers badly. That's different, and not something addressed by Woz. "You're holding it wrong" is not a respectful move, it's an arrogant one. The issue could have been dealt with similarly (free bumpers, etc) without fostering the same airs of superiority and arrogance.
- gamble 16y ago
  It's seemed to me like the people most upset by the antenna problem are the ones who don't use Apple products. This is not a controversy driven by outraged iPhone 4 buyers.
  - sabj 16y ago
    Probably true. I wonder sometimes what kind of subtle cracks it may expose in the cult of Apple, but they do seem to have weathered the storm well. Just a minor drizzle, I guess.
etherael 16y ago
- “I love Google, but I’m afraid it has a chance of becoming the Microsoft of the future. You remember how Microsoft used all of their ownership of the operating system to take over the browser … “ Pot, meet kettle.
tlrobinson 16y ago
I'm curious as to why he still has a salary from Apple. There must be some technical reason, since surely he doesn't need it.
- froo 16y ago
  It's probably more of a PR thing, given he's asked about Apple all the time.
jluxenberg 16y ago
"Although I receive a small salary from Apple, I do virtually no real work at the company." -- Woz That seems....wrong.
- mkramlich 16y ago
  He cofounded Apple and personally designed and built their first computers. Let's let the guy slide a wee bit on this one.
zokier 16y ago
The constant cutting of the video is quite annoying. Feels like the quotes were taken out of context.

31 points by px 16y ago

To skip TC: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kole_PzjxKo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kole_PzjxKo and a longer clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RFkv15Ngb0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RFkv15Ngb0

fuzzythinker 16y ago

He may be too close to Apple to realize Apple may be as likely (or more) as Google to be the "Microsoft of the future".

martythemaniak 16y ago
I thought that was the most ridiculous quote as well. One company makes an open-source operating system, the other exerts iron-fisted control over what developers and users can do with it's OS.
- JunkDNA 16y ago
  Your statement is correct, but doesn't tell the whole story. The issue is that Apple's relationship with its customers is simple: we make stuff, you give us money for it. Google's model is more complex: we make stuff, you get it free, but you give us your data. I would much rather exchange money for a product than my personal data. Everything Google does requires me to turn over my data to them so it can be monetized somehow. That's much more Orwellian than anything from MS or Apple.
  - nooneelse 16y ago
    Surely you aren't saying that Apple doesn't know what songs and programs users buy from them or the demographics to target iAds.
    - avdempsey 16y ago
      You can have all the demo information in the world. But if you're a new network with limited inventory, you aren't going to serve fine-tuned relevance.
    - JunkDNA 16y ago
      That's the same data every company has on me. But that sort of thing is limited. Google wants to mine my email, my photos, my calendar, and my documents. They also want to watch everything I read online via RSS. They want to dig into my voicemail on google voice. That is an unprecedented level of intrusion that I'm not sure I want. It is the primary way they make money. So they are forced to dig ever deeper to get better analytics to more narrowly target their ads. The incentives are aligned with them becoming ever more intrusive in their data mining. This level of data gathering makes grocery store shoppers clubs and Apple knowing what music and movies I buy pale in comparison. Here is a thought experiment: if tomorrow, it was announced that Microsoft was going to start mining Outlook calendar data to target Bing ads, what would be the reaction?
  - pavs 16y ago
    > Everything Google does requires me to turn over my data to them so it can be monetized somehow. And Apple (or any other company) doesn't?
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
jsz0 16y ago
Could go either way. Apple would have to move away from their high margins on hardware or license their operating systems and services to become the Microsoft of the Future. They just can't compete on pure volume. Google has made the choice to put their operating system(s) and services onto as many devices as possible to reap the benefits of a massive user base. On the surface that's more compatible with Gate's vision of a Windows PC on every desktop. I always look at it like this: If the iPhone disappeared tomorrow what would happen? We'd all get Android phones, BlackBerries, maybe WM7 phones. The mobile app market would be hurt but it wouldn't collapse because there are alternatives. iTunes? We'd just use NetFlix or Amazon MP3, Zune. If Google Search/Advertising disappeared tomorrow what would happen? Panic. Chaos. The whole Internet economy would collapse. Based on that I feel like Google clearly has its boot on people's necks in a way Apple doesn't. That makes the parallel between Google/Microsoft stronger for me.

sabj 16y ago

For me the real issue with the Antenna4 issue is not to say that Apple makes bad products. It was an example of Apple treating its customers badly. That's different, and not something addressed by Woz. "You're holding it wrong" is not a respectful move, it's an arrogant one. The issue could have been dealt with similarly (free bumpers, etc) without fostering the same airs of superiority and arrogance.

gamble 16y ago
It's seemed to me like the people most upset by the antenna problem are the ones who don't use Apple products. This is not a controversy driven by outraged iPhone 4 buyers.
- sabj 16y ago
  Probably true. I wonder sometimes what kind of subtle cracks it may expose in the cult of Apple, but they do seem to have weathered the storm well. Just a minor drizzle, I guess.

etherael 16y ago

- “I love Google, but I’m afraid it has a chance of becoming the Microsoft of the future. You remember how Microsoft used all of their ownership of the operating system to take over the browser … “ Pot, meet kettle.

tlrobinson 16y ago

I'm curious as to why he still has a salary from Apple. There must be some technical reason, since surely he doesn't need it.

froo 16y ago
It's probably more of a PR thing, given he's asked about Apple all the time.

jluxenberg 16y ago

"Although I receive a small salary from Apple, I do virtually no real work at the company." -- Woz That seems....wrong.

mkramlich 16y ago
He cofounded Apple and personally designed and built their first computers. Let's let the guy slide a wee bit on this one.

zokier 16y ago

The constant cutting of the video is quite annoying. Feels like the quotes were taken out of context.