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Look, that is all fine and dandy but I am much more angry at the actual users. Who forces to use anything that you mentioned? And in that way. I know it is not

by ssijak 9y ago

Look, that is all fine and dandy but I am much more angry at the actual users. Who forces to use anything that you mentioned? And in that way. I know it is not easy to be against all that money poured into researching how to trick your psychology to make you do what they want, but you can. Mine example (just for examples sake) : - Never read local news both online and offline because in my country, Serbia, all newspapers are so bad and just use click baits and target human emotions without real reporting. Fake news everywhere. I only open news when I hear from the social circle about something important and want to read more about it. - Deleted facebook from the phone, use it once daily on the PC for a few minutes. There is still value in it if used sparingly. My wife also use it to promote her fitness business. - Be very mindful of what you install on your phone or PC. Every app is potential time waster even if it seems useful at the beginning. - I call my self just Software Engineer from the day one (have more than 10 years of experience now) - Related to games, I do not have much time to play them now but when I do I only buy games with good single player story. Never buy games that just require too much grind/time wasting/money sinking. Only multiplayer games that I play are casual in person ones (PES, FIFA). - I eat unprocessed food as much as I can, me and my wife prepare it. We both train regularly in the gym, go on occasional hike in the nature, party or whatever. Trying to enjoy life on our terms in general. All in all. I know it is hard and I am far from perfect, just wanted to say that users can vote what they want by their actions. But I really can`t explain to myself why it seems to be so hard for many.

wellboy 9y ago
Because most people (80%+) struggle to maintain their job, health or family and dont have the focus to worry about things like that and are easy victims for addictive social media. Those products are built to exploit human nature and it takes a lot of effort and mindset to withstand those. Most people don't have the ability or the focus to do that.
- ssijak 9y ago
  I understand all of that. But still, majority of my friends complain how news are bad and facebook is bad and tv is bad and they spend large amount of their time consuming it. I was doing that too, but as soon as I realized that it was bad for me, I stopped. And yes, it was not 100% easy, they do provide dopamine fix or some other fake/empty entertainment for the brain that you need to fill with something else. But it is doable.
Singletoned 9y ago
> But I really can`t explain to myself why it seems to be so hard for many. You should always remember that this says nothing about those people and says a lot about you. Your failure to understand them is your failure not theirs. If you do actually want to understand why it is so hard for so many people, stop thinking of people as logical, rational agents, and instead think of them as complex biological systems.
salvar 9y ago
What advice would you give to people who may not be as resilient, technically adept or intelligent as you? Just become more like you?
- hycaria 9y ago
  Is there a single way to prevent them (some of, at least) to fall into narcissistic social media, conspiracy theories and global intellectual demise anyways ? I don't think so. I am baffled at how much people prefer a good story over an honest one. Gotta have everything simple (good, and evil, and no middle ground) and spectacular. It is compulsive and natural, and only fighting constantly against it slightly reduces your urges, and gives a moderate yet constant gain in my experience. Considering this, there's no shame in not wanting to dedicate ressources to this. The thing I understand from all of this is that people don't think forward and that lazyness and immediate reward is an easier road. If someone's genuinely interested in leading an healthier, happier, different life, there are plenty of resources out there now, social plans are a thing in most places plagued by depression and lack of fulfillment. I have simply no advice for people who fall for it. I don't even know what these people goals in life are, if any (probably the latter). It doesn't matter what they do in the big scheme, it also doesn't prevent above poster or myself to live rather simple fullfilling lives. I just don't care if people fall for stupid things, why should I after all, and why is everyone so worried for them ? Not like we can share luck or proficiency or logical reasoning and stick to "weaker" minds at all time to help them decide or whatever.
- dqpb 9y ago
  Yes, of course. Being resilient, technically adept, and intelligent are critical skills. Everyone should become more like that.
moosey 9y ago
You don't try these things expecting to become addicted. The overwhelming sense that using a cell phone, apps, and the internet is safe, from an addiction perspective, is something that we in tech circles has seen challenged repeatedly, but the average user doesn't know that. Let's talk about those users as well. They could be in poverty. According to contemporary research, poverty creates lower willpower, rather than the other way around. Could it be time poverty? We have people that drive several hours to work and home every day, again lowering willpower. You mention unprocessed food, training in the gym, access to nature. Do you know how lucky you are compared to most of the people who live under the constant stresses of American life? How few of these things are available to everyone? No, I don't blame the users. When these companies have an army of PhD's working all week to find ways to subvert the willpower of their users, I assure you that many users simply don't have the willpower pool necessary to fight back.

by ssijak 9y ago

wellboy 9y ago

Because most people (80%+) struggle to maintain their job, health or family and dont have the focus to worry about things like that and are easy victims for addictive social media. Those products are built to exploit human nature and it takes a lot of effort and mindset to withstand those. Most people don't have the ability or the focus to do that.

ssijak 9y ago
I understand all of that. But still, majority of my friends complain how news are bad and facebook is bad and tv is bad and they spend large amount of their time consuming it. I was doing that too, but as soon as I realized that it was bad for me, I stopped. And yes, it was not 100% easy, they do provide dopamine fix or some other fake/empty entertainment for the brain that you need to fill with something else. But it is doable.

Singletoned 9y ago

> But I really can`t explain to myself why it seems to be so hard for many. You should always remember that this says nothing about those people and says a lot about you. Your failure to understand them is your failure not theirs. If you do actually want to understand why it is so hard for so many people, stop thinking of people as logical, rational agents, and instead think of them as complex biological systems.

salvar 9y ago

What advice would you give to people who may not be as resilient, technically adept or intelligent as you? Just become more like you?

hycaria 9y ago
Is there a single way to prevent them (some of, at least) to fall into narcissistic social media, conspiracy theories and global intellectual demise anyways ? I don't think so. I am baffled at how much people prefer a good story over an honest one. Gotta have everything simple (good, and evil, and no middle ground) and spectacular. It is compulsive and natural, and only fighting constantly against it slightly reduces your urges, and gives a moderate yet constant gain in my experience. Considering this, there's no shame in not wanting to dedicate ressources to this. The thing I understand from all of this is that people don't think forward and that lazyness and immediate reward is an easier road. If someone's genuinely interested in leading an healthier, happier, different life, there are plenty of resources out there now, social plans are a thing in most places plagued by depression and lack of fulfillment. I have simply no advice for people who fall for it. I don't even know what these people goals in life are, if any (probably the latter). It doesn't matter what they do in the big scheme, it also doesn't prevent above poster or myself to live rather simple fullfilling lives. I just don't care if people fall for stupid things, why should I after all, and why is everyone so worried for them ? Not like we can share luck or proficiency or logical reasoning and stick to "weaker" minds at all time to help them decide or whatever.
dqpb 9y ago
Yes, of course. Being resilient, technically adept, and intelligent are critical skills. Everyone should become more like that.

moosey 9y ago

You don't try these things expecting to become addicted. The overwhelming sense that using a cell phone, apps, and the internet is safe, from an addiction perspective, is something that we in tech circles has seen challenged repeatedly, but the average user doesn't know that. Let's talk about those users as well. They could be in poverty. According to contemporary research, poverty creates lower willpower, rather than the other way around. Could it be time poverty? We have people that drive several hours to work and home every day, again lowering willpower. You mention unprocessed food, training in the gym, access to nature. Do you know how lucky you are compared to most of the people who live under the constant stresses of American life? How few of these things are available to everyone? No, I don't blame the users. When these companies have an army of PhD's working all week to find ways to subvert the willpower of their users, I assure you that many users simply don't have the willpower pool necessary to fight back.