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I'm glad Shaw wrote something about the response he received here. The original Poll/Epoll thread was full of garbage posts and "stop energy". A lot of smug o

by parfe 16y ago

I'm glad Shaw wrote something about the response he received here. The original Poll/Epoll thread was full of garbage posts and "stop energy". A lot of smug opinions and naysaying without much useful input or information. And the one smack talker who actually went out and tested a server showed 40% ATR which I felt supported Zed's point that you might be running a server that could be hurt by exclusively using epoll. And the best part is Zed was the one putting in work to try a better way. For this site to be so full of startup motivation and going out and trying something new it's hard to see the responses in the epoll/poll thread as anything but bitter or prejudiced against Zed.

jacquesm 16y ago
Thanks, that was me I believe, and wouldn't you believe it, poll is even better than what Zed measured: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1575361 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1575361 Unfortunately only if you overlook how that utility was meant to be used, which is of course a minor detail.
- parfe 16y ago
  I didn't want to call anyone out by name, but yeah :) I think Zed's (future) attempt at unifying the two polling methods via ZeroMQ is interesting and if he thinks it will improve his system he should try it. I severely dislike the idea being pushed in that original thread that polling was settled and he was wasting his time. Especially the "premature optimization" crap when Mongrel2 works well enough that he thinks he can spend time on this detail. I think it's great he's spending his time trying something new and sharing the results.
  - jacquesm 16y ago
    I'm fine with that too, but if you put your stuff out for the world to see expect to be criticised and learn how to respond with grace instead of with bile. A lot of people have been thrown off HN for considerably less than what 'Zed' gets away with and it seems to me that if you write "I learned the hard way that programmers listen to the biggest asshole, not the calm reasoned ones." that you're on the wrong track. Evidence beats arrogance and bullying any day. So, instead of responding in kind I decided to respond in code and with some figures as well as an analysis of what that utility is all about. Turns out that the way Zed uses it is in no way representative of a real world situation, even in simulation.
    - drdew 16y ago
      Sorry to go meta, but I think you started it with the following. > people have been thrown off HN for considerably less than what 'Zed' gets away with What is it with the quotes around the guy's real name? Is that some super lame attempt at dehumanizing your opponent? Even if you thought Zed was a pseudonym, it is the only name you have for the guy so, no quotes necessary. I think this is a Freudian slip on your part. Zed Shaw is not going to get thrown off Hacker News for something he writes on his blog. Zed Shaw doesn't get away with anything. Many people listen to Zed Shaw because he wrote Mongrel, defrocked the Ruby/Rails priesthood, works hard and is really nice to anyone that asks for his help. Many other people don't listen to Zed Shaw because he takes the piss out of them, are thin-skinned or think he is wrong or rude or both. Zed Shaw earns and he burns just like the rest of us. He doesn't get away with anything. > respond with grace instead of with bile Conventional wisdom. > "programmers listen to the biggest asshole" Reality. > you're on the wrong track Oh no, I'm loosing them. I better attract the crowd with more conventional wisdom.
    - zedshaw 16y ago
      I'm actually glad that you stopped spreading your FUD and started looking at it realistically. Thank you for that. But look at it from my perspective. You seem like the one spreading bile and being obnoxious because I come to that thread expecting a reasoned debate and instead I see you replying to every thread that disagreed with you and putting words in my mouth. You changed your story multiple times, just quote a numbers without actual data (although I see you might have some real data this time), and basically came off like yet another person who's more interested in winning by rhetoric rather than trying to analyze the problem. So to me, your behavior made you come off as yet another one of those assholes who's only goal is to troll. Now that you're actually collecting numbers and participating in the debate I'll start to listen. Incidentally, one of my blogs is already banned from HN because they don't like it. Same as any negative news about Mahalo or other "friends". Eventually the only thing left here will be a bunch of douchebags and neckbeards fighting each other for the next YC round of scraps if the trend continues. So, you should hope that they don't ban more people because trust me, tons of you guys would get banned hard.
      - 16y ago

by parfe 16y ago

jacquesm 16y ago

Thanks, that was me I believe, and wouldn't you believe it, poll is even better than what Zed measured: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1575361 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1575361 Unfortunately only if you overlook how that utility was meant to be used, which is of course a minor detail.

parfe 16y ago
I didn't want to call anyone out by name, but yeah :) I think Zed's (future) attempt at unifying the two polling methods via ZeroMQ is interesting and if he thinks it will improve his system he should try it. I severely dislike the idea being pushed in that original thread that polling was settled and he was wasting his time. Especially the "premature optimization" crap when Mongrel2 works well enough that he thinks he can spend time on this detail. I think it's great he's spending his time trying something new and sharing the results.
- jacquesm 16y ago
  I'm fine with that too, but if you put your stuff out for the world to see expect to be criticised and learn how to respond with grace instead of with bile. A lot of people have been thrown off HN for considerably less than what 'Zed' gets away with and it seems to me that if you write "I learned the hard way that programmers listen to the biggest asshole, not the calm reasoned ones." that you're on the wrong track. Evidence beats arrogance and bullying any day. So, instead of responding in kind I decided to respond in code and with some figures as well as an analysis of what that utility is all about. Turns out that the way Zed uses it is in no way representative of a real world situation, even in simulation.
  - drdew 16y ago
    Sorry to go meta, but I think you started it with the following. > people have been thrown off HN for considerably less than what 'Zed' gets away with What is it with the quotes around the guy's real name? Is that some super lame attempt at dehumanizing your opponent? Even if you thought Zed was a pseudonym, it is the only name you have for the guy so, no quotes necessary. I think this is a Freudian slip on your part. Zed Shaw is not going to get thrown off Hacker News for something he writes on his blog. Zed Shaw doesn't get away with anything. Many people listen to Zed Shaw because he wrote Mongrel, defrocked the Ruby/Rails priesthood, works hard and is really nice to anyone that asks for his help. Many other people don't listen to Zed Shaw because he takes the piss out of them, are thin-skinned or think he is wrong or rude or both. Zed Shaw earns and he burns just like the rest of us. He doesn't get away with anything. > respond with grace instead of with bile Conventional wisdom. > "programmers listen to the biggest asshole" Reality. > you're on the wrong track Oh no, I'm loosing them. I better attract the crowd with more conventional wisdom.
  - zedshaw 16y ago
    I'm actually glad that you stopped spreading your FUD and started looking at it realistically. Thank you for that. But look at it from my perspective. You seem like the one spreading bile and being obnoxious because I come to that thread expecting a reasoned debate and instead I see you replying to every thread that disagreed with you and putting words in my mouth. You changed your story multiple times, just quote a numbers without actual data (although I see you might have some real data this time), and basically came off like yet another person who's more interested in winning by rhetoric rather than trying to analyze the problem. So to me, your behavior made you come off as yet another one of those assholes who's only goal is to troll. Now that you're actually collecting numbers and participating in the debate I'll start to listen. Incidentally, one of my blogs is already banned from HN because they don't like it. Same as any negative news about Mahalo or other "friends". Eventually the only thing left here will be a bunch of douchebags and neckbeards fighting each other for the next YC round of scraps if the trend continues. So, you should hope that they don't ban more people because trust me, tons of you guys would get banned hard.
    - 16y ago