3 ms·

Speaking of politics, media influence and tech, a fair number of average joes have a terrible opinion of Musk/Tesla/SpaceX; but these same people are unaware, o

Speaking of politics, media influence and tech, a fair number of average joes have a terrible opinion of Musk/Tesla/SpaceX; but these same people are unaware, or maybe vaguely aware the US Gov spent >10billion, just in direct financial losses, bailing out GM. If everyone in the country was told "write a check to GM for $50 or go to jail," and conservative media wasn't berating Tesla/Musk, public opinion would be a lot different... Take it all with some healthy skepticism.

drawnwren 9y ago
Is conservative media berating Musk? I thought progressive media was souring on him?
- knowaveragejoe 9y ago
  Indeed they are: https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/11/breitbart-other-conservative-outlets-escalate-anti-spacex-campaign/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/11/breitbart-other-cons...
  - drawnwren 9y ago
    Interesting. Thanks for the source.
    - wallace_f 9y ago
      It's been going on for years. Here is another article from last year: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/dec/04/elon-musk-trolling-us-conservatives-green-tech https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/dec/04/elon-musk... Also, Rush Limbaugh hates Musk (he has the #1 talk show since 1987... Since record-keeping began, so a lot of people are exposed to that negativity)
- veidr 9y ago
  I think it's more the "anti-fact" wing of the media (which does mostly overlap "conservative" on the Venn diagram). Unabashed alt-right agitprop outlets like Breitbart news, for instance, or climate change deniers. There are a couple different things at play. First, one plank in their infowar strategy is to combat anything that even indirectly propagates any understanding of climate change among the proles. They take positions even against more-efficient-than-incandescent light bulbs, so this line of attack certainly includes targeting electric cars and solar. Musk is obviously a celebrity of sorts in these areas. Any government help to build solar plants or subsidize non-fossil-fuel alternatives (e.g. electric vehicles) is portrayed as deeply corrupt, a betrayal of American values and working families, etc. Ergo, Musk is bad. Two, Elon Musk and John McCain have a strong association. Musk has supported McCain and in turn McCain has supported Musk and his business ventures. This is the kind of invest-in-politicians-who-can-help-you relationship that is pretty much a fundamental building block of how the American government works, but it always looks bad to somebody inclined to see it that way. (It's probably also objectively bad that this is how the system works, but anyway it is.) So I think a lot of conservative media that doesn't like McCain (because he is too "establishment" or whatever the reason) have repeatedly brought Musk into it, implying corruption on the part of McCain to help Musk use Russian rocket engines at SpaceX, for example. McCain is bad, ergo his sleazy buddy Musk is also bad.
  - rblatz 9y ago
    I thought that it was Lockheed in partnership with some other major aerospace player using the Russian rockets.
  - wallace_f 9y ago
    I personally mostly don't agree with conservative media either, and I even mostly agree with you here, but to be fair the left also has their anti-fact narratives & outlets, and wrongthink, just the same as the right--just on different issues.
    - veidr 9y ago
      I completely agree with you, and didn't mean to imply otherwise. Although I do think there tends to be a broader overlap on the "conservative" side, for reasons for that are complicated and don't necessarily have a lot to do with being conservative, the "liberal" side does indeed have its vaccine deniers, MSG paranoiacs, and so on. (However, they don't have TV networks dedicated to these things, available in every hotel and airport in the country...) I try to judge media organizations (and people) based on their commitment to truth and openness to empirical evidence and new information. Their political leanings may be interesting, but are a (much) less significant data point.
      - folknor 9y ago
        That used to be the tendency, yes, but according to Jonathan Haidt at https://heterodoxacademy.org https://heterodoxacademy.org, "the left" has caught up to "the right"/conservatives in the number of scientific topics they deny outright, and it has happened in the last 5 years. So very recently, and unless you've been to college in those years, you won't be aware of it. I forget where he said it, or I would link to it. It might have been in a recent conversation he had with Jordan Peterson.
  - tooltalk 9y ago
    On your first point, I don't think most (fiscal, small-gov't) conservatives would have much problem with tax incentive for electric vehicles, or anything that generally reduces taxpayer burden. But they are typically vocally against subsidies and grants that favor particular individuals or companies over others -- which is not only unfair, but also adds to more spending. It does little, but to help justify a bigger gov't. Secondly, SpaceX have been spending millions in political lobbying and McCain's political campaign is among many who benefited from such largess (and his own McCain institute) from Musk. Most Americans don't see this kind of lobbying activities with millions dollars spent on politicians as a "fundamental building block" of a well-functioning gov't, but a corrosive force that serves interests of a few at the expense of the majority, however well-meaning in the eyes of Musk supporters. I personally don't see any problem with organizing an interest group to better represent their views -- or lobbyists -- but when it involves so much money and the final outcome ends in lopsided legislation favoring one particular individual or company over others, it's probably a good time to question their "invest-in-politicians-who-can-help-you" relationship. Ideologically, McCain's views are aligned with those of the "neoconservative" wing of the republican party -- he's mostly known for aggressive foreign policies, American democracy everywhere, and subsequently pro-Military Industry Complex (MIC) which inevitably all leads to a bigger gov't. While most conservatives are also for strong national defense, not everyone is necessarily on board with permanent warfare and welfare (and police) state and that's why "other" conservatives are so annoyed with McCain. So, once you put these together, it's not too difficult to see why the holy alliance between Must and McCain is criticized by those on the right. They are not necessarily grounded on "anti-facts" or alt-right views as you mischaracterized here. It's just too bad that your pathetic, uninformed comment had to start with the poisoning the well logical fallacy.
knowaveragejoe 9y ago
This is news to me, I've never come across an average person having a negative opinion of Musk. On the contrary they think of him as some iron-man like figure.
- wallace_f 9y ago
  How many people do you know that listen to Rush Limbaugh or read Breitbart? Apparently none. Personally, I like him quite a bit, but to be fair I know that outside of my own echo chamber of my news and social media feeds, that there are a lot of people who don't like him, and where that negativity is coming from.
  - clementine95 9y ago
    He also gets a lot of heat in leftist circles for his anti-union tactics & rhetoric.
    - dang 9y ago
      Would you please stop routinely creating bulk accounts to post with here? This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. HN is a community. If users don't have some consistent identity for others to relate to, we may as well have no usernames and no community at all. That would be a different kind of forum. Anonymity is fine, and throwaways for a specific purpose are ok. Just not routinely. https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0&query=by:dang%20identity%20community https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...
- ACow_Adonis 9y ago
  Most "average people" I know (admittedly on the other side of the world) have some name recognition for Tesla the company (they make expensive cars and batteries right?) and would probably struggle to tell you who elon musk is, let alone have an opinion on him. The tech bubble has thick walls sometimes...

drawnwren 9y ago

Is conservative media berating Musk? I thought progressive media was souring on him?

knowaveragejoe 9y ago
Indeed they are: https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/11/breitbart-other-conservative-outlets-escalate-anti-spacex-campaign/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/11/breitbart-other-cons...
- drawnwren 9y ago
  Interesting. Thanks for the source.
  - wallace_f 9y ago
    It's been going on for years. Here is another article from last year: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/dec/04/elon-musk-trolling-us-conservatives-green-tech https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/dec/04/elon-musk... Also, Rush Limbaugh hates Musk (he has the #1 talk show since 1987... Since record-keeping began, so a lot of people are exposed to that negativity)
veidr 9y ago
I think it's more the "anti-fact" wing of the media (which does mostly overlap "conservative" on the Venn diagram). Unabashed alt-right agitprop outlets like Breitbart news, for instance, or climate change deniers. There are a couple different things at play. First, one plank in their infowar strategy is to combat anything that even indirectly propagates any understanding of climate change among the proles. They take positions even against more-efficient-than-incandescent light bulbs, so this line of attack certainly includes targeting electric cars and solar. Musk is obviously a celebrity of sorts in these areas. Any government help to build solar plants or subsidize non-fossil-fuel alternatives (e.g. electric vehicles) is portrayed as deeply corrupt, a betrayal of American values and working families, etc. Ergo, Musk is bad. Two, Elon Musk and John McCain have a strong association. Musk has supported McCain and in turn McCain has supported Musk and his business ventures. This is the kind of invest-in-politicians-who-can-help-you relationship that is pretty much a fundamental building block of how the American government works, but it always looks bad to somebody inclined to see it that way. (It's probably also objectively bad that this is how the system works, but anyway it is.) So I think a lot of conservative media that doesn't like McCain (because he is too "establishment" or whatever the reason) have repeatedly brought Musk into it, implying corruption on the part of McCain to help Musk use Russian rocket engines at SpaceX, for example. McCain is bad, ergo his sleazy buddy Musk is also bad.
- rblatz 9y ago
  I thought that it was Lockheed in partnership with some other major aerospace player using the Russian rockets.
- wallace_f 9y ago
  I personally mostly don't agree with conservative media either, and I even mostly agree with you here, but to be fair the left also has their anti-fact narratives & outlets, and wrongthink, just the same as the right--just on different issues.
  - veidr 9y ago
    I completely agree with you, and didn't mean to imply otherwise. Although I do think there tends to be a broader overlap on the "conservative" side, for reasons for that are complicated and don't necessarily have a lot to do with being conservative, the "liberal" side does indeed have its vaccine deniers, MSG paranoiacs, and so on. (However, they don't have TV networks dedicated to these things, available in every hotel and airport in the country...) I try to judge media organizations (and people) based on their commitment to truth and openness to empirical evidence and new information. Their political leanings may be interesting, but are a (much) less significant data point.
    - folknor 9y ago
      That used to be the tendency, yes, but according to Jonathan Haidt at https://heterodoxacademy.org https://heterodoxacademy.org, "the left" has caught up to "the right"/conservatives in the number of scientific topics they deny outright, and it has happened in the last 5 years. So very recently, and unless you've been to college in those years, you won't be aware of it. I forget where he said it, or I would link to it. It might have been in a recent conversation he had with Jordan Peterson.
- tooltalk 9y ago
  On your first point, I don't think most (fiscal, small-gov't) conservatives would have much problem with tax incentive for electric vehicles, or anything that generally reduces taxpayer burden. But they are typically vocally against subsidies and grants that favor particular individuals or companies over others -- which is not only unfair, but also adds to more spending. It does little, but to help justify a bigger gov't. Secondly, SpaceX have been spending millions in political lobbying and McCain's political campaign is among many who benefited from such largess (and his own McCain institute) from Musk. Most Americans don't see this kind of lobbying activities with millions dollars spent on politicians as a "fundamental building block" of a well-functioning gov't, but a corrosive force that serves interests of a few at the expense of the majority, however well-meaning in the eyes of Musk supporters. I personally don't see any problem with organizing an interest group to better represent their views -- or lobbyists -- but when it involves so much money and the final outcome ends in lopsided legislation favoring one particular individual or company over others, it's probably a good time to question their "invest-in-politicians-who-can-help-you" relationship. Ideologically, McCain's views are aligned with those of the "neoconservative" wing of the republican party -- he's mostly known for aggressive foreign policies, American democracy everywhere, and subsequently pro-Military Industry Complex (MIC) which inevitably all leads to a bigger gov't. While most conservatives are also for strong national defense, not everyone is necessarily on board with permanent warfare and welfare (and police) state and that's why "other" conservatives are so annoyed with McCain. So, once you put these together, it's not too difficult to see why the holy alliance between Must and McCain is criticized by those on the right. They are not necessarily grounded on "anti-facts" or alt-right views as you mischaracterized here. It's just too bad that your pathetic, uninformed comment had to start with the poisoning the well logical fallacy.

knowaveragejoe 9y ago

This is news to me, I've never come across an average person having a negative opinion of Musk. On the contrary they think of him as some iron-man like figure.

wallace_f 9y ago
How many people do you know that listen to Rush Limbaugh or read Breitbart? Apparently none. Personally, I like him quite a bit, but to be fair I know that outside of my own echo chamber of my news and social media feeds, that there are a lot of people who don't like him, and where that negativity is coming from.
- clementine95 9y ago
  He also gets a lot of heat in leftist circles for his anti-union tactics & rhetoric.
  - dang 9y ago
    Would you please stop routinely creating bulk accounts to post with here? This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. HN is a community. If users don't have some consistent identity for others to relate to, we may as well have no usernames and no community at all. That would be a different kind of forum. Anonymity is fine, and throwaways for a specific purpose are ok. Just not routinely. https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0&query=by:dang%20identity%20community https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...
ACow_Adonis 9y ago
Most "average people" I know (admittedly on the other side of the world) have some name recognition for Tesla the company (they make expensive cars and batteries right?) and would probably struggle to tell you who elon musk is, let alone have an opinion on him. The tech bubble has thick walls sometimes...