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> We are witnessing cultural norms shift right before our eyes. I wonder how long until we see folks like Mick Jagger getting forced to resign their jobs due t

> We are witnessing cultural norms shift right before our eyes. I wonder how long until we see folks like Mick Jagger getting forced to resign their jobs due to using their status as rockstars to pick up women. Especially since most rockstars are also producers or executive producers, i.e. the same job that Harvey Weinstein or VCs have.

dragonwriter 9y ago
There's a critical difference between using your status as a public celebrity to pick up partners (which is fairly noncontroversial) and using your power as someone who can open and shut career doors to pressure people to accede to or keep quiet about your sexual advances. Someone like Jagger or Weinstein may have both kinds of status, but there is still a difference.
CydeWeys 9y ago
You're eliding the critical issue of consent. There are plenty of people who want to have sex with rockstars. There's no issue with that.
- Alex3917 9y ago
  > You're eliding the critical issue of consent. There are plenty of types of relationships that are consensual, but that are still either illegal or else forbidden by the ethics standards for various industries. Just because something is widely accepted today, doesn't mean that it will be acceptable in the future as long as there is consent. Ethical standards are shaped by the conflict between the world as it exists currently and the type of society we'd like to have. They're not immutable, nor are they guaranteed to move in any particular direction. E.g. if the human population outstrips the supply of cheap natural resources, liberal western values may go out the window very quickly around the world, just like they did in Iran.
  - jandrese 9y ago
    As far as I know the only person in the current wave of scandals who is being raked over the coals for consensual behavior is Bill Clinton. Every single other case involved men forcing themselves on women sexually.
  - CydeWeys 9y ago
    So are you making some kind of slippery slope argument then? The common thread with all of the housecleaning that's currently going on is that it's been harassment/assault/rape, i.e. non-consensual. I don't really understand what you're worried about? Is your argument that by allowing people to face punishment for non-consensual sexual behavior (i.e. harassment/assault/rape), we're opening the door in the future for people to be punished for consensual sexual behavior? History has also been going the opposite direction of what you're claiming anyway. Promiscuous consensual sexual behavior was much more heavily penalized in the past than in the present. It's going the other way. Many people were calling for rock music to be banned back in the day because of this kind of behavior they said that it idolized. Now, if anything, it's celebrated.

dragonwriter 9y ago

There's a critical difference between using your status as a public celebrity to pick up partners (which is fairly noncontroversial) and using your power as someone who can open and shut career doors to pressure people to accede to or keep quiet about your sexual advances. Someone like Jagger or Weinstein may have both kinds of status, but there is still a difference.

CydeWeys 9y ago

You're eliding the critical issue of consent. There are plenty of people who want to have sex with rockstars. There's no issue with that.

Alex3917 9y ago
> You're eliding the critical issue of consent. There are plenty of types of relationships that are consensual, but that are still either illegal or else forbidden by the ethics standards for various industries. Just because something is widely accepted today, doesn't mean that it will be acceptable in the future as long as there is consent. Ethical standards are shaped by the conflict between the world as it exists currently and the type of society we'd like to have. They're not immutable, nor are they guaranteed to move in any particular direction. E.g. if the human population outstrips the supply of cheap natural resources, liberal western values may go out the window very quickly around the world, just like they did in Iran.
- jandrese 9y ago
  As far as I know the only person in the current wave of scandals who is being raked over the coals for consensual behavior is Bill Clinton. Every single other case involved men forcing themselves on women sexually.
- CydeWeys 9y ago
  So are you making some kind of slippery slope argument then? The common thread with all of the housecleaning that's currently going on is that it's been harassment/assault/rape, i.e. non-consensual. I don't really understand what you're worried about? Is your argument that by allowing people to face punishment for non-consensual sexual behavior (i.e. harassment/assault/rape), we're opening the door in the future for people to be punished for consensual sexual behavior? History has also been going the opposite direction of what you're claiming anyway. Promiscuous consensual sexual behavior was much more heavily penalized in the past than in the present. It's going the other way. Many people were calling for rock music to be banned back in the day because of this kind of behavior they said that it idolized. Now, if anything, it's celebrated.