5 ms·

You have a choice of ISPs?

by skywhopper 9y ago

amsheehan 9y ago
I have one choice. I guess that's a choice.
- CodeWriter23 9y ago
  You have two choices. Use the one ISP or not. /PaiLogic
NegativeLatency 9y ago
I only have Comcast (coax) or Century Link (dsl). Basically there's no choice for me.
dmix 9y ago
Yes, and if you are in the minority of people who don't this will incentivize every nerd in your area to create an ISP to offer unfiltered internet. But more importantly this doesn't depend on competition to make ISPs realize it's a bad idea either. The technical hurdles and push back from the tech companies, media, and public are being extremely underrated. This whole scenario is far more complicated than the ISPs making a greedy choice one day. Regardless I'd rather we regulate actual threats rather than hand-wavy hypothetical ones.
- BinaryIdiot 9y ago
  > this will incentivize every nerd in your area to create an ISP to offer unfiltered internet Uh, how do you think these "nerds" are going to provide broadband? It's highly capital intensive to lay cabling so you're either going to piggyback off of someone like Comcast (who is going to charge you a lot) or you're going to piggyback off of someone's wireless which is also very expensive.
  - dmix 9y ago
    > you're either going to piggyback off of someone like Comcast That was the solution in Canada to generate competition, as the laying of cables was subsidized already, it was never a free market, as I'm sure the telecom industry in the US was hardly a free market... not sure why it's such a crazy idea. Why not focus on creating the basis for competition instead of centrally managing the intricacies of business... which has historically further limited competition. And if two companies engage in monopolistic practices, such as colluding to offer the same packages, that should be the domain of antitrust courts.
    - BinaryIdiot 9y ago
      > not sure why it's such a crazy idea. It's not a _crazy_ idea (many have proposed such an idea) it's just not _possible_ in the United States in most areas.
- Karunamon 9y ago
  "Minority of people"? Most people are in a duopoly - the local telco, the local cableco. Not much in the way of competition.
- outsidetheparty 9y ago
  > At the FCC's 25Mbps download/3Mbps upload broadband standard, there are no ISPs at all in 30 percent of developed census blocks and only one offering service that fast in 48 percent of the blocks. About 55 percent of census blocks have no 100Mbps/10Mbps providers, and only about 10 percent have multiple options at that speed. ... these numbers overstate the amount of competition, because an ISP might offer service to only part of a census block. The percentage of households with choice is thus even lower[1] I guess technically 48% is a minority. Sure is an awful lot of people, though. (Yes, if you drop all the way down to DSL speeds then most people do have more than one choice of provider. Ever tried to stream video at DSL speeds? Or shudder satellite?) [1] https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/us-broadband-still-no-isp-choice-for-many-especially-at-higher-speeds/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/us-br...
  - owie829 9y ago
    > But with the FCC now chaired by Republican Ajit Pai, the commission suggested in its annual broadband inquiry last month that Americans might not need a fast home Internet connection. Instead, mobile Internet via a smartphone, with speeds of just 10Mbps downstream and 1Mbps upstream, might be all people need, the FCC now suggests. but given a new definition of "broadband", competition will increase significantly. Now you can not only choose between Comcast and DSL, but AT&T, Verizon, T-Mobile/Sprint. See? Lots of competition! https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/09/ajit-pais-plan-to-lower-broadband-standards-is-crazy-fcc-democrat-says/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/09/ajit-...
    - outsidetheparty 9y ago
      Plan fails to meet the existing standards? Just redefine the standards to fit your plan! It's so simple!

You have a choice of ISPs?

amsheehan 9y ago

I have one choice. I guess that's a choice.

CodeWriter23 9y ago
You have two choices. Use the one ISP or not. /PaiLogic

NegativeLatency 9y ago

I only have Comcast (coax) or Century Link (dsl). Basically there's no choice for me.

dmix 9y ago

Yes, and if you are in the minority of people who don't this will incentivize every nerd in your area to create an ISP to offer unfiltered internet. But more importantly this doesn't depend on competition to make ISPs realize it's a bad idea either. The technical hurdles and push back from the tech companies, media, and public are being extremely underrated. This whole scenario is far more complicated than the ISPs making a greedy choice one day. Regardless I'd rather we regulate actual threats rather than hand-wavy hypothetical ones.

BinaryIdiot 9y ago
> this will incentivize every nerd in your area to create an ISP to offer unfiltered internet Uh, how do you think these "nerds" are going to provide broadband? It's highly capital intensive to lay cabling so you're either going to piggyback off of someone like Comcast (who is going to charge you a lot) or you're going to piggyback off of someone's wireless which is also very expensive.
- dmix 9y ago
  > you're either going to piggyback off of someone like Comcast That was the solution in Canada to generate competition, as the laying of cables was subsidized already, it was never a free market, as I'm sure the telecom industry in the US was hardly a free market... not sure why it's such a crazy idea. Why not focus on creating the basis for competition instead of centrally managing the intricacies of business... which has historically further limited competition. And if two companies engage in monopolistic practices, such as colluding to offer the same packages, that should be the domain of antitrust courts.
  - BinaryIdiot 9y ago
    > not sure why it's such a crazy idea. It's not a _crazy_ idea (many have proposed such an idea) it's just not _possible_ in the United States in most areas.
Karunamon 9y ago
"Minority of people"? Most people are in a duopoly - the local telco, the local cableco. Not much in the way of competition.
outsidetheparty 9y ago
> At the FCC's 25Mbps download/3Mbps upload broadband standard, there are no ISPs at all in 30 percent of developed census blocks and only one offering service that fast in 48 percent of the blocks. About 55 percent of census blocks have no 100Mbps/10Mbps providers, and only about 10 percent have multiple options at that speed. ... these numbers overstate the amount of competition, because an ISP might offer service to only part of a census block. The percentage of households with choice is thus even lower[1] I guess technically 48% is a minority. Sure is an awful lot of people, though. (Yes, if you drop all the way down to DSL speeds then most people do have more than one choice of provider. Ever tried to stream video at DSL speeds? Or shudder satellite?) [1] https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/us-broadband-still-no-isp-choice-for-many-especially-at-higher-speeds/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/us-br...
- owie829 9y ago
  > But with the FCC now chaired by Republican Ajit Pai, the commission suggested in its annual broadband inquiry last month that Americans might not need a fast home Internet connection. Instead, mobile Internet via a smartphone, with speeds of just 10Mbps downstream and 1Mbps upstream, might be all people need, the FCC now suggests. but given a new definition of "broadband", competition will increase significantly. Now you can not only choose between Comcast and DSL, but AT&T, Verizon, T-Mobile/Sprint. See? Lots of competition! https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/09/ajit-pais-plan-to-lower-broadband-standards-is-crazy-fcc-democrat-says/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/09/ajit-...
  - outsidetheparty 9y ago
    Plan fails to meet the existing standards? Just redefine the standards to fit your plan! It's so simple!