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>How? What actual change are you proposing here that utilizes short term profits to produce more scientists than criminals? I'd make it much easier to expel st

>How? What actual change are you proposing here that utilizes short term profits to produce more scientists than criminals? I'd make it much easier to expel students. Some bad kid brings a gun to school in elementary school? They're out for the rest of their life - freeing up resources to spend on better kids. Some bad kid molests another? Gone for life. Some bad kid punches a teacher? Gone for life. I'd bust the teacher's unions just so I could align pay with performance. They complain about being underpaid, but they have Cadillac health insurance and defined benefit pensions - both of those have astronomical costs and make their compensation much higher than their salary. I'd also give teachers top cover to conduct the classroom how they like. Teachers shouldn't have to waste time talking to idiot parents about dumb topics. Ideally, teaching would be a six-figure position (albeit with an HSA and a 401k) so we would want to respect teachers' time. I'd fund it by cutting the administration and special education departments to the bone.

dahart 9y ago
> I'd make it much easier to expel students. Some bad kid brings a gun to school in elementary school? They're out for the rest of their life - freeing up resources to spend on better kids. Some bad kid molests another? Gone for life. Some bad kid punches a teacher? Gone for life. This would do the exact opposite of what you claim. It would produce criminals faster than now. This would also tend to transfer the burden from education to social services, and somewhat to incarceration. Both of those are more expensive than education. You're proposing to increase taxes to pay for people's bad behavior, rather than do anything substantive to fix it at all. No thanks, and good luck. > Teachers shouldn't have to waste time talking to idiot parents about dumb topics. What are you referring to? How big of a problem is this? Do you have children in the public education system? > I'd fund it by cutting the administration and special education departments to the bone. Again, what percent of the system is special education? How much effect will this have? And what do you propose to do with people who need extra help? Leave them to rot? You again are proposing to transfer the special education burden onto even higher cost social services. And with less education, people with special needs will have less power to contribute back to the economy.
- alexanderstears 9y ago
  Kids who molest other kids and bring guns to school are criminals. We should lock them up early, and we can reduce the cost of prison by getting more labor out of prisoners and busting the guard unions. Teachers spend a non-zero amount of time dealing with parents. I know a few teachers personally and all of them have stories about parents who take up too much of their time. In the school districts near me, special ed and admin costs can take ~40% of the budget. I wouldn't displace the students onto social services because there'd be no social services.
  - dahart 9y ago
    > Kids who molest other kids and bring guns to school are criminals. We should lock them up early, and we can reduce the cost of prison by getting more labor out of prisoners and busting the guard unions. This seems like short-term economic thinking to me. We can also reduce the cost of prison by keeping more kids in school, rather than kicking kids to the curb the minute something bad happens. Inclusion, not exclusion, is how to feed the virtuous cycle. Also, if it's so easy to reduce the cost of prisons even though people have been debating it for centuries, why hasn't it happened already? How do you just extract more labor out of prisoners? And what happened to your plan to produce more scientists and fewer criminals? For three comments in a row you've ignored the question of how to convert more would-be criminals into scientists, and talked about reducing dollar costs instead. Pretend I don't care about dollar costs and help me understand how increasing expulsion and incarceration rates leads to more scientists. > Teachers spend a non-zero amount of time dealing with parents. I know a few teachers personally and all of them have stories about parents who take up too much of their time. So what? Part of being a teacher is interacting with parents, it's a good thing, not a bad thing. Some parents will take up more time. What is the actual problem here? What is the economic cost to teachers talking to parents? Since teachers mostly talk to parents outside of school hours, how much extra money for the education budget or the economy will solving this "problem" yield? > In the school districts near me, special ed and admin costs can take ~40% of the budget. I wouldn't displace the students onto social services because there'd be no social services. It sounds like regular students take ~60% of the budget. By your math, we could get more bang for our buck by eliminating the non-special-ed services. Do you have any policy study or experience at all? The more suggestions you add, the more it sounds like you aren't aware of any policy or government or education funding history. People have tried some of the kinds of things you're suggesting in the past, and gotten wildly different results than they expected.

dahart 9y ago

> I'd make it much easier to expel students. Some bad kid brings a gun to school in elementary school? They're out for the rest of their life - freeing up resources to spend on better kids. Some bad kid molests another? Gone for life. Some bad kid punches a teacher? Gone for life. This would do the exact opposite of what you claim. It would produce criminals faster than now. This would also tend to transfer the burden from education to social services, and somewhat to incarceration. Both of those are more expensive than education. You're proposing to increase taxes to pay for people's bad behavior, rather than do anything substantive to fix it at all. No thanks, and good luck. > Teachers shouldn't have to waste time talking to idiot parents about dumb topics. What are you referring to? How big of a problem is this? Do you have children in the public education system? > I'd fund it by cutting the administration and special education departments to the bone. Again, what percent of the system is special education? How much effect will this have? And what do you propose to do with people who need extra help? Leave them to rot? You again are proposing to transfer the special education burden onto even higher cost social services. And with less education, people with special needs will have less power to contribute back to the economy.

alexanderstears 9y ago
Kids who molest other kids and bring guns to school are criminals. We should lock them up early, and we can reduce the cost of prison by getting more labor out of prisoners and busting the guard unions. Teachers spend a non-zero amount of time dealing with parents. I know a few teachers personally and all of them have stories about parents who take up too much of their time. In the school districts near me, special ed and admin costs can take ~40% of the budget. I wouldn't displace the students onto social services because there'd be no social services.
- dahart 9y ago
  > Kids who molest other kids and bring guns to school are criminals. We should lock them up early, and we can reduce the cost of prison by getting more labor out of prisoners and busting the guard unions. This seems like short-term economic thinking to me. We can also reduce the cost of prison by keeping more kids in school, rather than kicking kids to the curb the minute something bad happens. Inclusion, not exclusion, is how to feed the virtuous cycle. Also, if it's so easy to reduce the cost of prisons even though people have been debating it for centuries, why hasn't it happened already? How do you just extract more labor out of prisoners? And what happened to your plan to produce more scientists and fewer criminals? For three comments in a row you've ignored the question of how to convert more would-be criminals into scientists, and talked about reducing dollar costs instead. Pretend I don't care about dollar costs and help me understand how increasing expulsion and incarceration rates leads to more scientists. > Teachers spend a non-zero amount of time dealing with parents. I know a few teachers personally and all of them have stories about parents who take up too much of their time. So what? Part of being a teacher is interacting with parents, it's a good thing, not a bad thing. Some parents will take up more time. What is the actual problem here? What is the economic cost to teachers talking to parents? Since teachers mostly talk to parents outside of school hours, how much extra money for the education budget or the economy will solving this "problem" yield? > In the school districts near me, special ed and admin costs can take ~40% of the budget. I wouldn't displace the students onto social services because there'd be no social services. It sounds like regular students take ~60% of the budget. By your math, we could get more bang for our buck by eliminating the non-special-ed services. Do you have any policy study or experience at all? The more suggestions you add, the more it sounds like you aren't aware of any policy or government or education funding history. People have tried some of the kinds of things you're suggesting in the past, and gotten wildly different results than they expected.