4 ms·

> these tartan traditions are > nearly 200 years old These are pretty old by American standards, albeit not by Scottish.

arethuza 9y ago
We seem to be pretty good at re-inventing traditions for a bit of fun - Up Helly Aa in Shetland and the more recent Beltane fire festival in Edinburgh being good examples. http://www.uphellyaa.org/ http://www.uphellyaa.org/ https://beltane.org/about/about-beltane/ https://beltane.org/about/about-beltane/
- psergeant 9y ago
  Scots in “will capitalise on credulous foreigners” shocker.
  - smcl 9y ago
    I think even many Scots aren't aware that the three things mentioned - the tartans or beltane/up helly aa - are relatively recent revivals
  - arethuza 9y ago
    I think that's a bit harsh - I've been at the Beltane festival and it hardly seemed targeted at tourists (unlike the Edinburgh Military Tattoo) and Up Helly Aa is on Shetland in January - so hardly a natural destination for tourists. There are also quite a few local customs that few people outside the immediate area will have heard of (e.g. Burning the Clavie at Burghead and the fireballs at Stonehaven) - which these probably do draw a few tourists I get the impression that they are local customs for local people. Edit: Mind you there is plenty of daft stuff for tourists in Scotland.... :-)
  - rsynnott 9y ago
    In practice, it's actually quite common for parts of countries' culture to be deliberately created. A lot of the US's patriotic customs only go back to the early 20th century, for instance.
    - stult 9y ago
      There's a post on the AskHistorians subreddit right now which discusses that very phenomenon. https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/7egibb/comment/dq4z0o7 https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/7egibb/comme...
  - smackay 9y ago
    There are quite a range of firey things to do around the end of the year in Scotland, https://www.visitscotland.com/blog/events/fire-festivals/ https://www.visitscotland.com/blog/events/fire-festivals/ Up Helly AA is definitely more touristy in recent years but in general I think this is targeted at the locals as much as the visitors. Most are middle-aged, 100 years or more, so it's likely this is a revival of something older at least in a romanticised version.
  - raesene6 9y ago
    Up Helly Aa isnt' designed to capitalise on credulous foreigners, it's very much a festival for the local population of Shetland. Apart from anything else, I can't imagine many people wanting to go to Shetland in January for a holiday :)
    - sambeau 9y ago
      I've known people go up for the Up Helly! I went to the one on Arran once, but I seem to recall it was in the Summer or Autumn. There was camping up the glen involved so it couldn't have winter time.
      - raesene6 9y ago
        If they like a drink (or several) and a party, indeed it's a good place to go. I've been to Shetland 7-8 times for holidays, lovely place, but not really in the winter. Apart from anything else the crossings can be really rough, or cancelled altogether if the weather is bad. I only did the ferry from Aberdeen once in really bad weather, they handed out leaflets to everyone getting on saying it was "at the passengers own risk"! Lets just say, even several of the crew were seasick on that voyage...
mhd 9y ago
They're older than Lederhosen.
- ucaetano 9y ago
  Lederhosen have been around for a while, at least since the middle ages, as they are simply farm worker pants made of leather. Sure, the romanticised modern version is recent, deriving from German unification and the Rococco period.
52-6F-62 9y ago
I always considered this pretty common knowledge, but I grew up in a household of semi-recent immigrants (I'm 3rd gen on my father's Scottish side, and 1st/2nd on my mother's Irish side depending on context) — so these kinds of things were impressed upon us in a way, sort of favouring retaining some cultural association. I guess I figured such because of the large population in North America that can trace its roots back to the British Isles, but maybe that was too generous. That said, the emphasis in my family was usually on plaid/tartan patterns being emblematic of Gaelic culture on whole, and much less being put on an associated pattern with the clans. Seemed more to be something that wealthier groups could afford to care more about. My father's side doesn't even have its own tartan: http://www.scotclans.com/scottish-clans/clan-fairlie/ http://www.scotclans.com/scottish-clans/clan-fairlie/ — Most often any information I find points us to take up a Ross or de Ros, and sometimes Boyd tartan — or being originally from the highlands, a Stewart. (from what I can tell in any of my reading it was the Jacobite uprisings where our family name came from in the first place.) I think my mother's side does have one or more tartans associated with them, but that seems to have been more of the Scottish influence on same/similar family names or migration.

arethuza 9y ago

We seem to be pretty good at re-inventing traditions for a bit of fun - Up Helly Aa in Shetland and the more recent Beltane fire festival in Edinburgh being good examples. http://www.uphellyaa.org/ http://www.uphellyaa.org/ https://beltane.org/about/about-beltane/ https://beltane.org/about/about-beltane/

psergeant 9y ago
Scots in “will capitalise on credulous foreigners” shocker.
- smcl 9y ago
  I think even many Scots aren't aware that the three things mentioned - the tartans or beltane/up helly aa - are relatively recent revivals
- arethuza 9y ago
  I think that's a bit harsh - I've been at the Beltane festival and it hardly seemed targeted at tourists (unlike the Edinburgh Military Tattoo) and Up Helly Aa is on Shetland in January - so hardly a natural destination for tourists. There are also quite a few local customs that few people outside the immediate area will have heard of (e.g. Burning the Clavie at Burghead and the fireballs at Stonehaven) - which these probably do draw a few tourists I get the impression that they are local customs for local people. Edit: Mind you there is plenty of daft stuff for tourists in Scotland.... :-)
- rsynnott 9y ago
  In practice, it's actually quite common for parts of countries' culture to be deliberately created. A lot of the US's patriotic customs only go back to the early 20th century, for instance.
  - stult 9y ago
    There's a post on the AskHistorians subreddit right now which discusses that very phenomenon. https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/7egibb/comment/dq4z0o7 https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/7egibb/comme...
- smackay 9y ago
  There are quite a range of firey things to do around the end of the year in Scotland, https://www.visitscotland.com/blog/events/fire-festivals/ https://www.visitscotland.com/blog/events/fire-festivals/ Up Helly AA is definitely more touristy in recent years but in general I think this is targeted at the locals as much as the visitors. Most are middle-aged, 100 years or more, so it's likely this is a revival of something older at least in a romanticised version.
- raesene6 9y ago
  Up Helly Aa isnt' designed to capitalise on credulous foreigners, it's very much a festival for the local population of Shetland. Apart from anything else, I can't imagine many people wanting to go to Shetland in January for a holiday :)
  - sambeau 9y ago
    I've known people go up for the Up Helly! I went to the one on Arran once, but I seem to recall it was in the Summer or Autumn. There was camping up the glen involved so it couldn't have winter time.
    - raesene6 9y ago
      If they like a drink (or several) and a party, indeed it's a good place to go. I've been to Shetland 7-8 times for holidays, lovely place, but not really in the winter. Apart from anything else the crossings can be really rough, or cancelled altogether if the weather is bad. I only did the ferry from Aberdeen once in really bad weather, they handed out leaflets to everyone getting on saying it was "at the passengers own risk"! Lets just say, even several of the crew were seasick on that voyage...

mhd 9y ago

They're older than Lederhosen.

ucaetano 9y ago
Lederhosen have been around for a while, at least since the middle ages, as they are simply farm worker pants made of leather. Sure, the romanticised modern version is recent, deriving from German unification and the Rococco period.

52-6F-62 9y ago

I always considered this pretty common knowledge, but I grew up in a household of semi-recent immigrants (I'm 3rd gen on my father's Scottish side, and 1st/2nd on my mother's Irish side depending on context) — so these kinds of things were impressed upon us in a way, sort of favouring retaining some cultural association. I guess I figured such because of the large population in North America that can trace its roots back to the British Isles, but maybe that was too generous. That said, the emphasis in my family was usually on plaid/tartan patterns being emblematic of Gaelic culture on whole, and much less being put on an associated pattern with the clans. Seemed more to be something that wealthier groups could afford to care more about. My father's side doesn't even have its own tartan: http://www.scotclans.com/scottish-clans/clan-fairlie/ http://www.scotclans.com/scottish-clans/clan-fairlie/ — Most often any information I find points us to take up a Ross or de Ros, and sometimes Boyd tartan — or being originally from the highlands, a Stewart. (from what I can tell in any of my reading it was the Jacobite uprisings where our family name came from in the first place.) I think my mother's side does have one or more tartans associated with them, but that seems to have been more of the Scottish influence on same/similar family names or migration.