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"In the distributive era free-market efficiency will no longer be justifiable if it creates whole classes of people who lose." I lean towards the positive side

"In the distributive era free-market efficiency will no longer be justifiable if it creates whole classes of people who lose." I lean towards the positive side of Universal Basic Income (my core argument is that no kid grows up thinking they want to be inactive) so it's heartening to see more of these arguments come to the fore.

margorczynski 9y ago
The only problem I see - who will pay for it? Considering that in the future most jobs are automated/remote moving a company somewhere else will pose no problem so taxing them will simply fail
- auggierose 9y ago
  Make it so that on your death or when you renounce your nationality, all capital you own goes back to the nation.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- telesilla 9y ago
  The important question! I value (the late, amazing) Alan Watts' take on this: "The answer is the machine. The machine pays for it, because the machine works for the manufacturer and for the community." or put another way "It will simply come from the share of productivity gains made possible by technology that should already be shared." https://steemit.com/basicincome/@scottsantens/who-pays-for-universal-basic-income-philosopher-alan-watts-answers-the-big-question https://steemit.com/basicincome/@scottsantens/who-pays-for-u... https://medium.com/basic-income/machine-labor-day-d77931dca9a8 https://medium.com/basic-income/machine-labor-day-d77931dca9...
- s_kilk 9y ago
  The answer is to (re)-impose capital controls to prevent the capital flight you mention. If we're going to live in a bright future then the days of corporations strip-mining the societies they exist in with impunity have got to come to an end.
- bantunes 9y ago
  The trillions hidden away in tax havens would be a start.
sperling75 9y ago
UBI is lazy tech guilt thinking. Not to mention it's arrogant. The idea that we've solved all that needs to be done is remarkable. Just look around you. Do you think we are in a place without problems that need resolving? Or work to be done? It's truly a problem of goals of humanity that lead to this disaster of demoralizing pay people to exist UBI thinking. Pay people for education first. We aren't even doing this!! Pay people to resolve climate change. Pay for more research. Pay for xyz that drives humans to new levels while enabling them to valuably contribute to our society. I'm going to write further on this but the UBI mindset is nothing more than lazy arrogant tech people who have no historical frame.
- golemotron 9y ago
  The guilt thing is real. Every thoughtful person in tech knows that what we produce devalues human skill and produces net job loss.
  - sperling75 9y ago
    Yes but the lack of jobs is a political problem. It's a problem of vision and goals. Just like a housing crisis. These can be resolved by changing the rules and goals of the group.
    - golemotron 9y ago
      People are not things to be engineered. This is our largest collective blindspot. Some people may look at what you see as utopia and say "no, thanks." This can happen for something as simple as UBI. In fact, I'm sure it will.
  - sperling75 9y ago
    Progress is defined by enabling people to do more. Do we really want to go back to making energy with coal? It creates lots of jobs. Jobs that can replace with new better ones. I truly believe we are in a crisis of vision. We have food and many material things met but we haven't moved on to pushing for more progress that creates the new jobs politically.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

margorczynski 9y ago

The only problem I see - who will pay for it? Considering that in the future most jobs are automated/remote moving a company somewhere else will pose no problem so taxing them will simply fail

auggierose 9y ago
Make it so that on your death or when you renounce your nationality, all capital you own goes back to the nation.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
telesilla 9y ago
The important question! I value (the late, amazing) Alan Watts' take on this: "The answer is the machine. The machine pays for it, because the machine works for the manufacturer and for the community." or put another way "It will simply come from the share of productivity gains made possible by technology that should already be shared." https://steemit.com/basicincome/@scottsantens/who-pays-for-universal-basic-income-philosopher-alan-watts-answers-the-big-question https://steemit.com/basicincome/@scottsantens/who-pays-for-u... https://medium.com/basic-income/machine-labor-day-d77931dca9a8 https://medium.com/basic-income/machine-labor-day-d77931dca9...
s_kilk 9y ago
The answer is to (re)-impose capital controls to prevent the capital flight you mention. If we're going to live in a bright future then the days of corporations strip-mining the societies they exist in with impunity have got to come to an end.
bantunes 9y ago
The trillions hidden away in tax havens would be a start.

sperling75 9y ago

UBI is lazy tech guilt thinking. Not to mention it's arrogant. The idea that we've solved all that needs to be done is remarkable. Just look around you. Do you think we are in a place without problems that need resolving? Or work to be done? It's truly a problem of goals of humanity that lead to this disaster of demoralizing pay people to exist UBI thinking. Pay people for education first. We aren't even doing this!! Pay people to resolve climate change. Pay for more research. Pay for xyz that drives humans to new levels while enabling them to valuably contribute to our society. I'm going to write further on this but the UBI mindset is nothing more than lazy arrogant tech people who have no historical frame.

golemotron 9y ago
The guilt thing is real. Every thoughtful person in tech knows that what we produce devalues human skill and produces net job loss.
- sperling75 9y ago
  Yes but the lack of jobs is a political problem. It's a problem of vision and goals. Just like a housing crisis. These can be resolved by changing the rules and goals of the group.
  - golemotron 9y ago
    People are not things to be engineered. This is our largest collective blindspot. Some people may look at what you see as utopia and say "no, thanks." This can happen for something as simple as UBI. In fact, I'm sure it will.
- sperling75 9y ago
  Progress is defined by enabling people to do more. Do we really want to go back to making energy with coal? It creates lots of jobs. Jobs that can replace with new better ones. I truly believe we are in a crisis of vision. We have food and many material things met but we haven't moved on to pushing for more progress that creates the new jobs politically.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]