5 ms·

I think the biggest problem is the price point. The person who most wants to use their phone as a PC is the person who can't afford spending $4000 on the entir

by cbhl 9y ago

I think the biggest problem is the price point. The person who most wants to use their phone as a PC is the person who can't afford spending $4000 on the entire suite of Apple devices. That person probably also can't afford a $100 dock (let alone a $300 one) for their phone. When someone makes a USB-C/Thunderbolt/Intel/Windows device that is phone sized but runs legacy Windows applications (like MS Paint and Quickbooks and 90s-era video games), and connects with commodity connectors, then the idea stands a chance. (IMHO, Windows Continuum died because of a chicken-and-egg problem -- no iOS devs wanted to pay $1000 for Visual Studio plus a Windows laptop, but no users used the phone because key apps were missing.)

anilshanbhag 9y ago
I don't think the price comparison is fair. If someone spends 700$ on a phone, he would be ok spending 200$ if the system does work smoothly. What I think people are more skeptic about is performance and user experience.
- orbitingpluto 9y ago
  Are you forgetting that most people get their phones with their plans? People will feel that they can absorb $20 or even $30 extra per month on their plan for a top tier phone. Absorbing any hit over $200 when someone lives hand to mouth makes these a non-starter. The best chance for mass success for this option is for it to be included in the base purchase.
  - anilshanbhag 9y ago
    Well there is nothing preventing Dex from coming with a monthly plan. Note that all plans are very low interest rate loans, there is nothing special about a phone plan. Also, majority of people just use email and word suite. An S9 is easily capable of doing these tasks and it saves the individual or company cost of a cpu box (400 USD at the low end).
    - zodPod 9y ago
      Plans are also just generally a good way to hide the actual cost of the device. Notice that, when you walk into a Verizon store, they aren't saying "BUY PHONE FOR $760!" they're saying "A New iPhone for just $32/mo!" So most of these people aren't going "Oh MAN only $760 in the end?!" they're going "I can afford $32/mo!" My point is, it really doesn't matter what the reality of the cost/loan is, people who think "$30/mo! I can do that!" are probably not also going to think $200 seems like a good price for basically a cable to plug my phone into my computer. Obviously, your other point was that it could come with a plan too but that seems doable but also there's yet another cost on top of the phone they were just barely justifying already. I'm not saying you're wrong but I think the price of this device is ridiculous. I might pay $80 for it if it were really something I needed but, as others have said, I don't carry my phone around to be a computer. I carry it to be a phone. On top of that, I never really have a situation where I've got a keyboard, mouse, and monitor just sitting around waiting for something to activate them. So I'm not sure when I'd use this anyway.
- halflings 9y ago
  > What I think people are more skeptic about is performance and user experience. I think that's what the parent was talking about: Most people that wouldn't mind a simpler UX and less performance can't afford this phone/dock in a first place... and the people that would afford this (have an S8 and don't mind buying a $300 dock) will be skeptical about the usefulness and performance of this system.
- monk_e_boy 9y ago
  They already have a few iPads and laptops.
- bigiain 9y ago
  Except most people don't think of themselves as "someone who spends $700 on a phone", they pay $x9.95/month for $y00 minutes talktime plus $zGB of data and they get a "free" phone every two years... I doubt any of those people would think it's a good idea to spend an extra ~$15/month for a thing that lets them plug a screen/keyboard/mouse into their "free" phone.
  - zodPod 9y ago
    Yeah, and, to be honest, I've bought both of my phones I've had over the last few years and there's no way in hell I'd spend another $200 on a stupid dock. If this were an $80 device I might go for it but they killed it with a high price tag. Surprise surprise!
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    Not everywhere. Here in Europe, contracts are the exception not the rule. Most people just charge with 15 to 20 euros their SIM card whenever they feel like it, and have to pay full price for mobile phone. Or pay it in rates to only have it unlocked from the network at the end of two years, so they are going to use that phone until it dies or gets stolen.
    - teamhappy 9y ago
      > Here in Europe, contracts are the exception not the rule. I'm pretty sure that hasn't been true for years.
      - pjmlp 9y ago
        Data to back it up please, since you are pretty sure? "Around 70% of customers in Western Europe and China use prepaid phones with the figure rising to over 90% for customers in India and Africa" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prepay_mobile_phone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prepay_mobile_phone I only know people with contracts regarding iPhone, which is the only affordable way to get them new in many of the European countries.
        9y ago
merb 9y ago
> That person probably also can't afford a $100 dock (let alone a $300 one) for their phone. well the atrix costed $400 usd and even with a monthly plan was way cheaper than the samsung galaxy s8 and even on a monthly plan it was cheaper than the current galaxys. still all people bought the galaxys
Kipters 9y ago
To be fair, you don't need $1000 to start developing UWP apps for Continuum. You just need a Windows license (~50$) since you can install it on Macs, and you can use Visual Studio Community, which is free (as in beer). Of course, plus the Continuum-enabled device, like a Lumia 950, but that's technically optional since you can debug your app on your local machine.
ianburrell 9y ago
The competition for phone dock is from cheap laptop or desktop. Also, phone dock requires monitor and keyboard which is extra expense. Most people would choose laptop before full desk setup. There are also all-in-one computers and compute sticks that provide cheap alternatives for someone who wants simple or portable.
- petecox 9y ago
  I already have dual monitors, keyboard, usb audio and mouse. Via a KVM switch, they drive a Windows 10 laptop and a Linux box. So I don't need additional computers in my life but if my phone had docking support I'd seamlessly just plug it into my existing setup. As the laptop and pc depreciate over time and phone hardware improves with every generation, a DeX platform becomes more attractive as a node on my KVM setup.
harryf 9y ago
> The person who most wants to use their phone as a PC is the person who can't afford spending $4000 on the entire suite of Apple devices. I'd love to have just one computing device that covers everything for the sake of simplicity. At times I've found myself carrying a smartphone, laptop, tablet and a smart watch, plus ton of cables and adapters... almost 10 pounds or 5kg of electronics just to cover all my use cases. Dragging that through airports for example is ridiculous.
- danudey 9y ago
  The iPhone in my pocket is as powerful as basically any iPad, and more powerful than many laptops. An iPad is powerful enough for most typical workloads. Therefore, my iPhone is powerful enough for most workloads. If I could dock my phone into something that gave me a monitor, keyboard, and (so I don't have to lift my arm up over and over) a trackpad, that would solve my home computing needs 85% of the time.
  - StephenMelon 9y ago
    Well the phone is already a trackpad, you can mirror the screen wireless via an Apple TV, and you can use a Bluetooth keyboard. In fact, I’m doing all 3 to write this (The user-experience is more than acceptable, but I’m not going to try to use the setup for coding any time soon). Apple could pull the trigger on running full OSX on a phone or iPad if they thought there was a market for it but it would be a backwards-looking step. It’s not exactly an innovation leap to think “hey, phones will match desktop PC performance, we could plug one into peripherals and make a device that can become a desktop”, everyone has had that idea. It just seems a bit backwards looking? In 10 years time the power of a current Mac Pro will probably be available in a watch with 5G+ bandwidth. If necessary, a desktop OS experience could be an app or a cloud service on whichever screen (or headset) is available.
  - hajile 9y ago
    TDP matters for serious work. Over normal work periods, that ipad is going to continue to operate at a fairly high frequency while the iphone will throttle because it can't dissipate as much heat. Dissipation and size affect many other parts of system design too (eg, memory speed, width, and size).
petecox 9y ago
Don't get hung up too much on the price. They charge that because they can. Expect Xiaomi to release a $25 knockoff for their phones if there's ever a demand for it. I suspect there's very little in the dock hardware itself over a standard USB-C OTG charging hub with HDMI passthrough and an ethernet port. Maybe I'm wrong but the rest is just software on the phone?
- gyaru 9y ago
  It is indeed only software, I bought a $25 USB-C to HDMI dongle on Ebay and it works just like the Samsung DeX device.
vfXander 9y ago
It's $60 on eBay (new), how's that a problem?
throw2016 9y ago
The Huawei Mate has the same feature and uses a normal hdmi connector. Infact I recollect seeing a youtube video[1] and there is probably a thread on xda [2] that got Samsung Dex working with a normal usb-c to hdmi connector. It's a useful feature and because we already have too many devices finds little use but once its seamless it could offer many possibilities. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s50GWuKphTI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s50GWuKphTI [2] https://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-s8/how-to/dex-unexpectedly-using-usb-c-hub-t3676078 https://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-s8/how-to/dex-unexpe...
- DennisAleynikov 9y ago
  Yeah, DeX used some relatively obscure DisplayPort based implementation of Usb-C to HDMI, as long as you're using that (might be called slimport) it works. I'm getting away with using a $20 dongle.

by cbhl 9y ago

anilshanbhag 9y ago

I don't think the price comparison is fair. If someone spends 700$ on a phone, he would be ok spending 200$ if the system does work smoothly. What I think people are more skeptic about is performance and user experience.

orbitingpluto 9y ago
Are you forgetting that most people get their phones with their plans? People will feel that they can absorb $20 or even $30 extra per month on their plan for a top tier phone. Absorbing any hit over $200 when someone lives hand to mouth makes these a non-starter. The best chance for mass success for this option is for it to be included in the base purchase.
- anilshanbhag 9y ago
  Well there is nothing preventing Dex from coming with a monthly plan. Note that all plans are very low interest rate loans, there is nothing special about a phone plan. Also, majority of people just use email and word suite. An S9 is easily capable of doing these tasks and it saves the individual or company cost of a cpu box (400 USD at the low end).
  - zodPod 9y ago
    Plans are also just generally a good way to hide the actual cost of the device. Notice that, when you walk into a Verizon store, they aren't saying "BUY PHONE FOR $760!" they're saying "A New iPhone for just $32/mo!" So most of these people aren't going "Oh MAN only $760 in the end?!" they're going "I can afford $32/mo!" My point is, it really doesn't matter what the reality of the cost/loan is, people who think "$30/mo! I can do that!" are probably not also going to think $200 seems like a good price for basically a cable to plug my phone into my computer. Obviously, your other point was that it could come with a plan too but that seems doable but also there's yet another cost on top of the phone they were just barely justifying already. I'm not saying you're wrong but I think the price of this device is ridiculous. I might pay $80 for it if it were really something I needed but, as others have said, I don't carry my phone around to be a computer. I carry it to be a phone. On top of that, I never really have a situation where I've got a keyboard, mouse, and monitor just sitting around waiting for something to activate them. So I'm not sure when I'd use this anyway.
halflings 9y ago
> What I think people are more skeptic about is performance and user experience. I think that's what the parent was talking about: Most people that wouldn't mind a simpler UX and less performance can't afford this phone/dock in a first place... and the people that would afford this (have an S8 and don't mind buying a $300 dock) will be skeptical about the usefulness and performance of this system.
monk_e_boy 9y ago
They already have a few iPads and laptops.
bigiain 9y ago
Except most people don't think of themselves as "someone who spends $700 on a phone", they pay $x9.95/month for $y00 minutes talktime plus $zGB of data and they get a "free" phone every two years... I doubt any of those people would think it's a good idea to spend an extra ~$15/month for a thing that lets them plug a screen/keyboard/mouse into their "free" phone.
- zodPod 9y ago
  Yeah, and, to be honest, I've bought both of my phones I've had over the last few years and there's no way in hell I'd spend another $200 on a stupid dock. If this were an $80 device I might go for it but they killed it with a high price tag. Surprise surprise!
- pjmlp 9y ago
  Not everywhere. Here in Europe, contracts are the exception not the rule. Most people just charge with 15 to 20 euros their SIM card whenever they feel like it, and have to pay full price for mobile phone. Or pay it in rates to only have it unlocked from the network at the end of two years, so they are going to use that phone until it dies or gets stolen.
  - teamhappy 9y ago
    > Here in Europe, contracts are the exception not the rule. I'm pretty sure that hasn't been true for years.
    - pjmlp 9y ago
      Data to back it up please, since you are pretty sure? "Around 70% of customers in Western Europe and China use prepaid phones with the figure rising to over 90% for customers in India and Africa" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prepay_mobile_phone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prepay_mobile_phone I only know people with contracts regarding iPhone, which is the only affordable way to get them new in many of the European countries.
      - 9y ago

merb 9y ago

> That person probably also can't afford a $100 dock (let alone a $300 one) for their phone. well the atrix costed $400 usd and even with a monthly plan was way cheaper than the samsung galaxy s8 and even on a monthly plan it was cheaper than the current galaxys. still all people bought the galaxys

Kipters 9y ago

To be fair, you don't need $1000 to start developing UWP apps for Continuum. You just need a Windows license (~50$) since you can install it on Macs, and you can use Visual Studio Community, which is free (as in beer). Of course, plus the Continuum-enabled device, like a Lumia 950, but that's technically optional since you can debug your app on your local machine.

ianburrell 9y ago

The competition for phone dock is from cheap laptop or desktop. Also, phone dock requires monitor and keyboard which is extra expense. Most people would choose laptop before full desk setup. There are also all-in-one computers and compute sticks that provide cheap alternatives for someone who wants simple or portable.

petecox 9y ago
I already have dual monitors, keyboard, usb audio and mouse. Via a KVM switch, they drive a Windows 10 laptop and a Linux box. So I don't need additional computers in my life but if my phone had docking support I'd seamlessly just plug it into my existing setup. As the laptop and pc depreciate over time and phone hardware improves with every generation, a DeX platform becomes more attractive as a node on my KVM setup.

harryf 9y ago

> The person who most wants to use their phone as a PC is the person who can't afford spending $4000 on the entire suite of Apple devices. I'd love to have just one computing device that covers everything for the sake of simplicity. At times I've found myself carrying a smartphone, laptop, tablet and a smart watch, plus ton of cables and adapters... almost 10 pounds or 5kg of electronics just to cover all my use cases. Dragging that through airports for example is ridiculous.

danudey 9y ago
The iPhone in my pocket is as powerful as basically any iPad, and more powerful than many laptops. An iPad is powerful enough for most typical workloads. Therefore, my iPhone is powerful enough for most workloads. If I could dock my phone into something that gave me a monitor, keyboard, and (so I don't have to lift my arm up over and over) a trackpad, that would solve my home computing needs 85% of the time.
- StephenMelon 9y ago
  Well the phone is already a trackpad, you can mirror the screen wireless via an Apple TV, and you can use a Bluetooth keyboard. In fact, I’m doing all 3 to write this (The user-experience is more than acceptable, but I’m not going to try to use the setup for coding any time soon). Apple could pull the trigger on running full OSX on a phone or iPad if they thought there was a market for it but it would be a backwards-looking step. It’s not exactly an innovation leap to think “hey, phones will match desktop PC performance, we could plug one into peripherals and make a device that can become a desktop”, everyone has had that idea. It just seems a bit backwards looking? In 10 years time the power of a current Mac Pro will probably be available in a watch with 5G+ bandwidth. If necessary, a desktop OS experience could be an app or a cloud service on whichever screen (or headset) is available.
- hajile 9y ago
  TDP matters for serious work. Over normal work periods, that ipad is going to continue to operate at a fairly high frequency while the iphone will throttle because it can't dissipate as much heat. Dissipation and size affect many other parts of system design too (eg, memory speed, width, and size).

petecox 9y ago

Don't get hung up too much on the price. They charge that because they can. Expect Xiaomi to release a $25 knockoff for their phones if there's ever a demand for it. I suspect there's very little in the dock hardware itself over a standard USB-C OTG charging hub with HDMI passthrough and an ethernet port. Maybe I'm wrong but the rest is just software on the phone?

gyaru 9y ago
It is indeed only software, I bought a $25 USB-C to HDMI dongle on Ebay and it works just like the Samsung DeX device.

vfXander 9y ago

It's $60 on eBay (new), how's that a problem?

throw2016 9y ago

The Huawei Mate has the same feature and uses a normal hdmi connector. Infact I recollect seeing a youtube video[1] and there is probably a thread on xda [2] that got Samsung Dex working with a normal usb-c to hdmi connector. It's a useful feature and because we already have too many devices finds little use but once its seamless it could offer many possibilities. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s50GWuKphTI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s50GWuKphTI [2] https://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-s8/how-to/dex-unexpectedly-using-usb-c-hub-t3676078 https://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-s8/how-to/dex-unexpe...

DennisAleynikov 9y ago
Yeah, DeX used some relatively obscure DisplayPort based implementation of Usb-C to HDMI, as long as you're using that (might be called slimport) it works. I'm getting away with using a $20 dongle.