5 ms·

The Lives of China’s Art Factory Workers

109 points by chrischen 9y ago

pierrebai 9y ago
Nice marketo-move to push this up HN just before the holiday buying season to promote your company and boost sales.
- bluetwo 9y ago
  Shhhh..... they've done this dozens of times here.
  - inetsee 9y ago
    It seems to work. This same blog post was listed on HN two days ago. It got one upvote (might have been mine, I'm a sucker for articles on art, however obscure). The re-post has gotten 88 votes in seven hours.
    - chrischen 9y ago
      We play around with the title to see what gets picked up.
- toomanybeersies 9y ago
  They're pretty open about doing this: https://www.indiehackers.com/businesses/instapainting https://www.indiehackers.com/businesses/instapainting (around halfway down the page, they discuss using HN as a kick start to going viral)
DanAndersen 9y ago
Several years ago, when I was working abroad in China, I saw an excellent exhibit at the Hong Kong Museum of Art that discussed the origins of the world of "Chinese export art." It's interesting to realize that what the article is describing has been around for quite some time. Here are a few posts I found showing some of the more historical export art: https://dreaminhkbubbles.wordpress.com/2012/11/16/chinese-export-painting-from-mid-to-late-qing-dynasty/ https://dreaminhkbubbles.wordpress.com/2012/11/16/chinese-ex... https://dreaminhkbubbles.wordpress.com/2012/11/17/first-stage-of-artistic-inclusion-of-the-east-and-west/ https://dreaminhkbubbles.wordpress.com/2012/11/17/first-stag... https://dreaminhkbubbles.wordpress.com/2012/11/18/details-showed-in-the-exhibition-of-the-artistic-inclusion-of-the-east-and-west/ https://dreaminhkbubbles.wordpress.com/2012/11/18/details-sh...
dmix 9y ago
Are there any good sites for getting well done replicas of paintings by famous artists? I found a few great paintings I have bookmarked and I've been meaning to get a real oil-painted replica from China... This is obviously a content-marketing post by instapainting and keeps linking back to it's own site (with interesting content none-the-less, there is value in this approach when they try like this). But I'm interested in finding one related more to the subject matter. Where they recreate the classics...
- wallflower 9y ago
  > Where they recreate the classics... http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,433134,00.html http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,433134,00.html
  - dmix 9y ago
    Your point? Are you suggesting the solution is we stop providing income for all artists in China so that things will get better for the subset that are abused? Or that I should pick my sites carefully? > Southern China is the world's leading center for mass-produced works of art. I mentioned China for this very reason.
    - wallflower 9y ago
      Sorry, I misread your question. I was responding to the question where might you read more about these artists reproducing classic works, not where can you find sites to connect with these artists.
- danvoell 9y ago
  That was my first thought as well.
- chrischen 9y ago
  We use our special position in the industry to gain access inside. We also have this article that talked more about the factories: https://www.instapainting.com/blog/company/2015/10/28/how-to-paint-10000-paintings/ https://www.instapainting.com/blog/company/2015/10/28/how-to... This year's article focuses mostly on the art workers and their thoughts and opinions.
pan69 9y ago
Could it be that some of these painters might become the Rembrandts of the future? I mean, in Rembrandt's time, painters painted on commission and their paintings weren't nearly as valuable as they are today. Back then, what they we're doing was pretty much craft, not art per-se. Of course, not all painters from Rembrandt time became huge sellers in the future...
- dmix 9y ago
  Is there still a market for Rembrandts today? This type of high volume work might not provide the large amounts of time it would take to be a great artist. I'm curious if this type of art is similar to journalism where the market dynamics have changed. Art is still very popular of course but to get the genius 1% you need a wide swatch of artists and I'd imagine this used to be a far more popular painting in Europe back when the classic painters were dominating.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- sologoub 9y ago
  That seems completely different type of work. There are still artists today that paint mural and commissioned art, but that work is usually more or less unique and is not cheap. It also includes artistic expression. Not so sure there is room for artistic expression when you are mass producing copies and are paid for the copying process and not creativity.
- justchilly 9y ago
  Artistic skill itself has become commoditized, it's all about the brand. The key to fame/high valuations in all marketing and building a following. If you have two artists that can create the same works, one could charge $20k and the other couldn't charge $200 if they don't have a name for themselves (and previous buyers). It seems like the big disadvantage these Chinese artists have is not so much skill as marketability.
- itronitron 9y ago
sologoub 9y ago
At the low end of the spectrum, thanks to this mass produced "art", it's almost impossible to find anything painted by local artists in places like Paris, unless you go for the galleries, and even though I'm not sure it's all legit. People will literally pretend to paint in public places, but then you walk a few more blocks and the same half-done painting is being "painted" and the same "portfolio" is being offered. Even in places that are being billed as being for local artists only. I really hope that we can someday return to quality and authenticity from just quantity.
- toomanybeersies 9y ago
  Not that I know anything about the local art scene in tourist hotspots like Paris, but has it ever been different? I strongly suspect this kind of hustle (like most tourist hustles) has been going on for a long time, it's just that now the paintings have been imported from China instead of being mass-painted on the cheap more locally. According to wikipedia [1], the scam has been going on in some form since the early 2000's. No mention of France or Paris in the wikipedia article though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_student_scam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_student_scam
  - chrischen 9y ago
    Basically the painting and home/hotel decor industry is no different than any other industry. Everything that requires hand labor is mass-produced in China, from Christmas decorations to assembly of iPhones. It's just that with things like paintings, some people consider it special as art, but this just goes to show that nothing escapes the mass-production of China.
- 1_2__4 9y ago
  I think any prognosis here is dire. There’s no going back from where we are.
  - sologoub 9y ago
    Sure there is. It all depends on what we, as society, value. So long as the market exists and is supported by enough people it continues. If society decides it no longer collectively finds a given market acceptable (not in the legal sense necessarily, as drug markets show, but as in willingness to pay and participate in), then the market collapses. For the art scam, if people decide that generic keepsakes from tourist destination are no longer valuable, or send the wrong kind of social signal, that market will collapse. Social change is possible, but I’d argue we have MUCH higher priorities in social change department over the fake art.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
justchilly 9y ago
Another interesting change that’s happening, that this article omits, is that artists/factories are able to reach customers directly on Alibaba/Amazon/Etsy. A few years it would have required visiting artists/factories Daifen to get things rolling. It’s a bummer to see the impact FAANG are having on startups... but in this case they may actually be helping poor artists keep a bigger share of the revenue. Sites such as Instapainting.com / Paintyourlife.com (endless options/higher prices) / Oilbyhand.com (few options/lower prices) / pixeli.st (good UX) still have the advantage of focus and marketing (and customer support?), but the actual products they deliver are likely the same as you’d get directly from the artists. Link to Alibaba search: https://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&SearchText=oil+on+canvas+reproduction https://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product...
- chrischen 9y ago
  Actually Instapainting is the only one that operates more like Etsy. You're put directly in contact with the artist, studio, or China company with some guarantees made by Instapainting that you won't get screwed over.
- itronitron 9y ago
  Looks like they have some great painters in Daifen, and I am reminded of the oil portraits that the Mojang development team had commissioned several years ago for themselves [1]. 1. https://twitter.com/notch/status/292254246756294656?lang=en https://twitter.com/notch/status/292254246756294656?lang=en
traverseda 9y ago
>If you’re coming from Hacker News, I appreciate an up-vote if you find this article interesting. That doesn't seem like something we should encourage.
gumby 9y ago
Another industry waiting to be disrupted by a combination of robots & AI, so these paintings can be produced automatically every corner of the globe. Actually this would make a pretty good YC submission.
- chrischen 9y ago
  We got that already: https://www.instapainting.com/blog/research/2015/09/10/robotic-painter-color/ https://www.instapainting.com/blog/research/2015/09/10/robot...
Paskov 9y ago
There is a documentary on this subject, named "China's Van Goghs".

109 points by chrischen 9y ago

pierrebai 9y ago

Nice marketo-move to push this up HN just before the holiday buying season to promote your company and boost sales.

bluetwo 9y ago
Shhhh..... they've done this dozens of times here.
- inetsee 9y ago
  It seems to work. This same blog post was listed on HN two days ago. It got one upvote (might have been mine, I'm a sucker for articles on art, however obscure). The re-post has gotten 88 votes in seven hours.
  - chrischen 9y ago
    We play around with the title to see what gets picked up.
toomanybeersies 9y ago
They're pretty open about doing this: https://www.indiehackers.com/businesses/instapainting https://www.indiehackers.com/businesses/instapainting (around halfway down the page, they discuss using HN as a kick start to going viral)

DanAndersen 9y ago

Several years ago, when I was working abroad in China, I saw an excellent exhibit at the Hong Kong Museum of Art that discussed the origins of the world of "Chinese export art." It's interesting to realize that what the article is describing has been around for quite some time. Here are a few posts I found showing some of the more historical export art: https://dreaminhkbubbles.wordpress.com/2012/11/16/chinese-export-painting-from-mid-to-late-qing-dynasty/ https://dreaminhkbubbles.wordpress.com/2012/11/16/chinese-ex... https://dreaminhkbubbles.wordpress.com/2012/11/17/first-stage-of-artistic-inclusion-of-the-east-and-west/ https://dreaminhkbubbles.wordpress.com/2012/11/17/first-stag... https://dreaminhkbubbles.wordpress.com/2012/11/18/details-showed-in-the-exhibition-of-the-artistic-inclusion-of-the-east-and-west/ https://dreaminhkbubbles.wordpress.com/2012/11/18/details-sh...

dmix 9y ago

Are there any good sites for getting well done replicas of paintings by famous artists? I found a few great paintings I have bookmarked and I've been meaning to get a real oil-painted replica from China... This is obviously a content-marketing post by instapainting and keeps linking back to it's own site (with interesting content none-the-less, there is value in this approach when they try like this). But I'm interested in finding one related more to the subject matter. Where they recreate the classics...

wallflower 9y ago
> Where they recreate the classics... http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,433134,00.html http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,433134,00.html
- dmix 9y ago
  Your point? Are you suggesting the solution is we stop providing income for all artists in China so that things will get better for the subset that are abused? Or that I should pick my sites carefully? > Southern China is the world's leading center for mass-produced works of art. I mentioned China for this very reason.
  - wallflower 9y ago
    Sorry, I misread your question. I was responding to the question where might you read more about these artists reproducing classic works, not where can you find sites to connect with these artists.
danvoell 9y ago
That was my first thought as well.
chrischen 9y ago
We use our special position in the industry to gain access inside. We also have this article that talked more about the factories: https://www.instapainting.com/blog/company/2015/10/28/how-to-paint-10000-paintings/ https://www.instapainting.com/blog/company/2015/10/28/how-to... This year's article focuses mostly on the art workers and their thoughts and opinions.

pan69 9y ago

Could it be that some of these painters might become the Rembrandts of the future? I mean, in Rembrandt's time, painters painted on commission and their paintings weren't nearly as valuable as they are today. Back then, what they we're doing was pretty much craft, not art per-se. Of course, not all painters from Rembrandt time became huge sellers in the future...

dmix 9y ago
Is there still a market for Rembrandts today? This type of high volume work might not provide the large amounts of time it would take to be a great artist. I'm curious if this type of art is similar to journalism where the market dynamics have changed. Art is still very popular of course but to get the genius 1% you need a wide swatch of artists and I'd imagine this used to be a far more popular painting in Europe back when the classic painters were dominating.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
sologoub 9y ago
That seems completely different type of work. There are still artists today that paint mural and commissioned art, but that work is usually more or less unique and is not cheap. It also includes artistic expression. Not so sure there is room for artistic expression when you are mass producing copies and are paid for the copying process and not creativity.
justchilly 9y ago
Artistic skill itself has become commoditized, it's all about the brand. The key to fame/high valuations in all marketing and building a following. If you have two artists that can create the same works, one could charge $20k and the other couldn't charge $200 if they don't have a name for themselves (and previous buyers). It seems like the big disadvantage these Chinese artists have is not so much skill as marketability.
itronitron 9y ago

sologoub 9y ago

At the low end of the spectrum, thanks to this mass produced "art", it's almost impossible to find anything painted by local artists in places like Paris, unless you go for the galleries, and even though I'm not sure it's all legit. People will literally pretend to paint in public places, but then you walk a few more blocks and the same half-done painting is being "painted" and the same "portfolio" is being offered. Even in places that are being billed as being for local artists only. I really hope that we can someday return to quality and authenticity from just quantity.

toomanybeersies 9y ago
Not that I know anything about the local art scene in tourist hotspots like Paris, but has it ever been different? I strongly suspect this kind of hustle (like most tourist hustles) has been going on for a long time, it's just that now the paintings have been imported from China instead of being mass-painted on the cheap more locally. According to wikipedia [1], the scam has been going on in some form since the early 2000's. No mention of France or Paris in the wikipedia article though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_student_scam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_student_scam
- chrischen 9y ago
  Basically the painting and home/hotel decor industry is no different than any other industry. Everything that requires hand labor is mass-produced in China, from Christmas decorations to assembly of iPhones. It's just that with things like paintings, some people consider it special as art, but this just goes to show that nothing escapes the mass-production of China.
1_2__4 9y ago
I think any prognosis here is dire. There’s no going back from where we are.
- sologoub 9y ago
  Sure there is. It all depends on what we, as society, value. So long as the market exists and is supported by enough people it continues. If society decides it no longer collectively finds a given market acceptable (not in the legal sense necessarily, as drug markets show, but as in willingness to pay and participate in), then the market collapses. For the art scam, if people decide that generic keepsakes from tourist destination are no longer valuable, or send the wrong kind of social signal, that market will collapse. Social change is possible, but I’d argue we have MUCH higher priorities in social change department over the fake art.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

justchilly 9y ago

Another interesting change that’s happening, that this article omits, is that artists/factories are able to reach customers directly on Alibaba/Amazon/Etsy. A few years it would have required visiting artists/factories Daifen to get things rolling. It’s a bummer to see the impact FAANG are having on startups... but in this case they may actually be helping poor artists keep a bigger share of the revenue. Sites such as Instapainting.com / Paintyourlife.com (endless options/higher prices) / Oilbyhand.com (few options/lower prices) / pixeli.st (good UX) still have the advantage of focus and marketing (and customer support?), but the actual products they deliver are likely the same as you’d get directly from the artists. Link to Alibaba search: https://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&SearchText=oil+on+canvas+reproduction https://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product...

chrischen 9y ago
Actually Instapainting is the only one that operates more like Etsy. You're put directly in contact with the artist, studio, or China company with some guarantees made by Instapainting that you won't get screwed over.
itronitron 9y ago
Looks like they have some great painters in Daifen, and I am reminded of the oil portraits that the Mojang development team had commissioned several years ago for themselves [1]. 1. https://twitter.com/notch/status/292254246756294656?lang=en https://twitter.com/notch/status/292254246756294656?lang=en

traverseda 9y ago

>If you’re coming from Hacker News, I appreciate an up-vote if you find this article interesting. That doesn't seem like something we should encourage.

gumby 9y ago

Another industry waiting to be disrupted by a combination of robots & AI, so these paintings can be produced automatically every corner of the globe. Actually this would make a pretty good YC submission.

chrischen 9y ago
We got that already: https://www.instapainting.com/blog/research/2015/09/10/robotic-painter-color/ https://www.instapainting.com/blog/research/2015/09/10/robot...

Paskov 9y ago

There is a documentary on this subject, named "China's Van Goghs".