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Without judging people's situations, I have to wonder at why people earning minimum wage would be eating out at Panera vs bringing lunch from home for much less

Without judging people's situations, I have to wonder at why people earning minimum wage would be eating out at Panera vs bringing lunch from home for much less money.

abhi3 9y ago
Most people are migrant laborers, they don't have families in the city or home.
- _nothing 9y ago
  What does that have to do the above reply?
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
SwellJoe 9y ago
There's a growing mobile homeless or partially homeless (living in storage facilities or an RV without services) population in many of the more expensive cities; they live in the city for work, because that's where the jobs are, but can't actually afford to live there. Obviously, this isn't everyone who eats out who can't really afford it, but it's definitely some. If you don't have a fridge, you don't have a stove, and you have no way to keep or prepare fresh foods, you have to eat out more often. I've known lots of folks in this situation (I live in an RV and travel a lot and run into all sorts of people). They often do keep bread and peanut butter in their car or RV or whatever, but they have pretty limited options. It's not healthy or sustainable to eat that way. So, they end up eating out a lot. Our cities are becoming wholly inhospitable to poor people, and food is no exception. And, someone making $12.50/hour probably can't really afford rent in a city like DC, either.
- shostack 9y ago
  Thank you for educating me on that aspect of the situation. Is there typically electricity in these situations? I ask because per my post below, I wonder how common it is to bootstrap up to a mini-fridge + pressure cooker or rice cooker or something like that. Seems like a few weeks of PB&J + cup ramen could provide for a significant upgrade in nutrition from purchasing those tools. I'm probably leaving out some important aspect of this, and unfortunately some of this might simply be around education of where to purchase these tools and what to do with them to eat smarter, but I can't help but think there are ways to improve the situation with the cards they currently have in their hand. If I found myself suddenly living out of a car or storage unit (provided it had electricity), I'd probably do whatever I could to save for a mini-fridge and rice cooker (eventually upgrading to a pressure cooker), and go from there. Rice and beans purchased in bulk are affordable and solid staples, and easy to turn into more nutritious meals by adding other ingredients.
  - SwellJoe 9y ago
    It's wildly variable what resources someone in that kind of situation might have. There was a guy living in the storage unit next to the one I have in Austin (for my stuff from when I moved out of a house and back into an RV). The folks who ran the storage facility let him run an extension cord to the nearest power; several people actually were living in that facility, despite it being illegal. So, in his case he did have electricity, and I believe he had a mini-fridge. We talked several times and he seemed to have a pretty reasonable setup. He even had a space heater for when it got cold. I never saw the inside of his house (he'd built a wall and second regular door behind the rolling garage style door), but he seemed to be reasonably comfortable and had regular work really close by (since he only had a bike, proximity was important). The last time I was there, he'd moved out, and the person working didn't know where he'd gone; I'm hoping he was doing well and got an apartment rather than ran into harder times. Similarly, I've seen people use one of these to get electricity inside a storage unit when they didn't have particularly understanding landlords: http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/00/04/31/80/63/0004318063152_500X500.jpg http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/00/04/31/80/63/0004318063152_... But, people in cars or vans probably don't have power. Some RVers have solar panels, and also RV fridges often also run on propane (though they aren't terribly efficient in the old RVs...I go through about $15/week running mine on propane). Propane fridges are very expensive and very fidgety and prone to breakage over time, however, so it's not uncommon to see the propane/electric dual-mode fridge replaced with an electric-only model in the cheapest old RVs. So, that limits the use of the fridge to times when it's plugged in. I know someone who lives in a bus that she converted to an RV herself, but she didn't put in a fridge (yet), so while she has a stove, if she's not parked near a grocery, she is very limited in what she can cook. Some things keep well without refrigeration: onions, potatoes, winter squash, etc. She has potted plants for tomatoes and herbs, but she's much more intentional about her situation. She moved out of an apartment and into the bus by choice, not by necessity, and mostly enjoys the off-the-grid lifestyle. She made one of these for when she's in the desert: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pot-in-pot_refrigerator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pot-in-pot_refrigerator but those only work in very dry climates and aren't cold enough for many foods. Obviously wouldn't work in most places...and if you're in a city, you have to be self-contained and very discreet about where you're living. Can't really spread out and put out pots and stuff when parked on a street.
AdmiralAsshat 9y ago
So, rent in the DC area starts at about $1400/mth. Period. If you're okay living with three roommates, you might be able to eke out something livable at $700 a month. But then you're sharing a house with people you don't know, and young women might be especially uncomfortable with that. Your other option is to live in someone's guest room or basement for $600. The people who rent out these rooms usually expect to be renting to college students, and so there is often very little by way of accommodations: the room may be 10x10" and include little more than a bed and a desk. The family will also make it very clear that the tenant is not allowed to use the kitchen, making cooking impossible. So the tenant is pushed to live meal-to-meal, as it were, with little expectation of being able to store or prepare food long-term.
- shostack 9y ago
  Do they have electricity? A mini-fridge runs <$70 (probably less second-hand). That's a little more than a week's worth of Panera. Pretty easy to do with dry goods and cup ramen that only requires hot water to heat up. Pressure cookers are even cheaper. Rice cookers can be had for <$25. So while I recognize that not everyone in that situation may be resourceful enough to realize this and do something about it, the notion that cooking becomes impossible is not accurate. The education for where to purchase these things cheaply and how to cook in restricted situations with them is admittedly still a problem though, and it seems like a lot of good could be done to solve it. Getting your nutrition bootstrapped up on a path that lets you save more money seems like a worthwhile goal.
  - geodel 9y ago
    May be it is US thing or generally everywhere but I notice nowadays people think cooking either has to be elaborate/expensive or with such low efforts that one would not even like the meal they prepared for themselves. Hence eating out is so common even with less money. For me since I always carry from home for lunch and eat dinner at home, so cooking needs to be in all categories like low/medium/elaborate efforts. And of course tasty enough that myself or anyone joining me reasonably like it.
  - AdmiralAsshat 9y ago
Brockenstein 9y ago
There's a pretty large demographic of people making minimum wage or low wages. Some people just aren't responsible with money, they don't budget, they don't live within their means, they don't really think or care to look at the expenses or how they add up. If you did a Venn diagram of low wage earners and people who aren't really responsible with their money, those are the people eating at Panera Bread, or buying things from Rent-A-Center or taking out high interest loans and engaging in every sort of behavior that compounds the problems with making low wages.
- emj 9y ago
  No. To make food you need resources, the less you have the more it costs per meal. Panera bread might be the only alternative you have to be able to function in the work place.

Without judging people's situations, I have to wonder at why people earning minimum wage would be eating out at Panera vs bringing lunch from home for much less money.

abhi3 9y ago

Most people are migrant laborers, they don't have families in the city or home.

_nothing 9y ago
What does that have to do the above reply?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]

SwellJoe 9y ago

There's a growing mobile homeless or partially homeless (living in storage facilities or an RV without services) population in many of the more expensive cities; they live in the city for work, because that's where the jobs are, but can't actually afford to live there. Obviously, this isn't everyone who eats out who can't really afford it, but it's definitely some. If you don't have a fridge, you don't have a stove, and you have no way to keep or prepare fresh foods, you have to eat out more often. I've known lots of folks in this situation (I live in an RV and travel a lot and run into all sorts of people). They often do keep bread and peanut butter in their car or RV or whatever, but they have pretty limited options. It's not healthy or sustainable to eat that way. So, they end up eating out a lot. Our cities are becoming wholly inhospitable to poor people, and food is no exception. And, someone making $12.50/hour probably can't really afford rent in a city like DC, either.

shostack 9y ago
Thank you for educating me on that aspect of the situation. Is there typically electricity in these situations? I ask because per my post below, I wonder how common it is to bootstrap up to a mini-fridge + pressure cooker or rice cooker or something like that. Seems like a few weeks of PB&J + cup ramen could provide for a significant upgrade in nutrition from purchasing those tools. I'm probably leaving out some important aspect of this, and unfortunately some of this might simply be around education of where to purchase these tools and what to do with them to eat smarter, but I can't help but think there are ways to improve the situation with the cards they currently have in their hand. If I found myself suddenly living out of a car or storage unit (provided it had electricity), I'd probably do whatever I could to save for a mini-fridge and rice cooker (eventually upgrading to a pressure cooker), and go from there. Rice and beans purchased in bulk are affordable and solid staples, and easy to turn into more nutritious meals by adding other ingredients.
- SwellJoe 9y ago
  It's wildly variable what resources someone in that kind of situation might have. There was a guy living in the storage unit next to the one I have in Austin (for my stuff from when I moved out of a house and back into an RV). The folks who ran the storage facility let him run an extension cord to the nearest power; several people actually were living in that facility, despite it being illegal. So, in his case he did have electricity, and I believe he had a mini-fridge. We talked several times and he seemed to have a pretty reasonable setup. He even had a space heater for when it got cold. I never saw the inside of his house (he'd built a wall and second regular door behind the rolling garage style door), but he seemed to be reasonably comfortable and had regular work really close by (since he only had a bike, proximity was important). The last time I was there, he'd moved out, and the person working didn't know where he'd gone; I'm hoping he was doing well and got an apartment rather than ran into harder times. Similarly, I've seen people use one of these to get electricity inside a storage unit when they didn't have particularly understanding landlords: http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/00/04/31/80/63/0004318063152_500X500.jpg http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/00/04/31/80/63/0004318063152_... But, people in cars or vans probably don't have power. Some RVers have solar panels, and also RV fridges often also run on propane (though they aren't terribly efficient in the old RVs...I go through about $15/week running mine on propane). Propane fridges are very expensive and very fidgety and prone to breakage over time, however, so it's not uncommon to see the propane/electric dual-mode fridge replaced with an electric-only model in the cheapest old RVs. So, that limits the use of the fridge to times when it's plugged in. I know someone who lives in a bus that she converted to an RV herself, but she didn't put in a fridge (yet), so while she has a stove, if she's not parked near a grocery, she is very limited in what she can cook. Some things keep well without refrigeration: onions, potatoes, winter squash, etc. She has potted plants for tomatoes and herbs, but she's much more intentional about her situation. She moved out of an apartment and into the bus by choice, not by necessity, and mostly enjoys the off-the-grid lifestyle. She made one of these for when she's in the desert: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pot-in-pot_refrigerator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pot-in-pot_refrigerator but those only work in very dry climates and aren't cold enough for many foods. Obviously wouldn't work in most places...and if you're in a city, you have to be self-contained and very discreet about where you're living. Can't really spread out and put out pots and stuff when parked on a street.

AdmiralAsshat 9y ago

So, rent in the DC area starts at about $1400/mth. Period. If you're okay living with three roommates, you might be able to eke out something livable at $700 a month. But then you're sharing a house with people you don't know, and young women might be especially uncomfortable with that. Your other option is to live in someone's guest room or basement for $600. The people who rent out these rooms usually expect to be renting to college students, and so there is often very little by way of accommodations: the room may be 10x10" and include little more than a bed and a desk. The family will also make it very clear that the tenant is not allowed to use the kitchen, making cooking impossible. So the tenant is pushed to live meal-to-meal, as it were, with little expectation of being able to store or prepare food long-term.

shostack 9y ago
Do they have electricity? A mini-fridge runs <$70 (probably less second-hand). That's a little more than a week's worth of Panera. Pretty easy to do with dry goods and cup ramen that only requires hot water to heat up. Pressure cookers are even cheaper. Rice cookers can be had for <$25. So while I recognize that not everyone in that situation may be resourceful enough to realize this and do something about it, the notion that cooking becomes impossible is not accurate. The education for where to purchase these things cheaply and how to cook in restricted situations with them is admittedly still a problem though, and it seems like a lot of good could be done to solve it. Getting your nutrition bootstrapped up on a path that lets you save more money seems like a worthwhile goal.
- geodel 9y ago
  May be it is US thing or generally everywhere but I notice nowadays people think cooking either has to be elaborate/expensive or with such low efforts that one would not even like the meal they prepared for themselves. Hence eating out is so common even with less money. For me since I always carry from home for lunch and eat dinner at home, so cooking needs to be in all categories like low/medium/elaborate efforts. And of course tasty enough that myself or anyone joining me reasonably like it.
- AdmiralAsshat 9y ago

Brockenstein 9y ago

There's a pretty large demographic of people making minimum wage or low wages. Some people just aren't responsible with money, they don't budget, they don't live within their means, they don't really think or care to look at the expenses or how they add up. If you did a Venn diagram of low wage earners and people who aren't really responsible with their money, those are the people eating at Panera Bread, or buying things from Rent-A-Center or taking out high interest loans and engaging in every sort of behavior that compounds the problems with making low wages.

emj 9y ago
No. To make food you need resources, the less you have the more it costs per meal. Panera bread might be the only alternative you have to be able to function in the work place.