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Many women (including my wife) have to be taught how to breastfeed and for some or many it involves a lot of struggle to get right without pain or too much disc

Many women (including my wife) have to be taught how to breastfeed and for some or many it involves a lot of struggle to get right without pain or too much discomfort. From an evolutionary point of view why would the mechanism be so difficult to get right? Shouldn't it be easier and, well, natural? Are modern women somehow fighting against nature in the way they breastfeed? Have the "natural skills" been lost in the modern lifestyle?

tocomment 16y ago
I've always wondered this too. Most mammals seem to figure it out effortlessly. Perhaps since the time we've had hands and been able to grind up food for babies, breast-feeding has been somewhat optional so there hasn't been much selection pressure on us for millions of years to keep breast feeding working well. That's the only theory I've got.
- Mz 16y ago
  I've always wondered this too. Most mammals seem to figure it out effortlessly. Most mammals have mammaries that are purely functional and only round out due to filling with milk. Human female breasts are full for other reasons, too full in fact to be baby-friendly. Most other mammals also feed their offspring in plain view of others of their species, which means there is plenty of opportunity to observe how it is done. In human cultures, we debate the morality of -- gasp! -- breastfeeding in public. When it is done in public at all, it is handled very discretely so no one gets a glimpse of someone's breast or, god forbid, nipple. Not exactly a learning opportunity for any other women who happen to be around who might someday have a baby themselves and might want to breastfeed. Part of my experience with this subject: I breastfed my oldest until he was nearly 2 and my youngest rejected the breast very early (due to lactose intolerance), breastfeeding full-time for only 10 days and part-time until he was 6 weeks old. And I helped my sister address some issues she had with her baby so she could successfully breastfeed.
  - MoreMoschops 16y ago
    " In human cultures, we debate the morality of -- gasp! -- breastfeeding in public." What of human cultures outside the U.S.?
    - Mz 16y ago
      I would tend to assume that in cultures where the birth rate is sufficiently high, breastfeeding is sufficiently common and where such matters are handled more openly than is typical in the US, you would be less likely to hear people expressing bafflement as to why this seems to be so hard for some/many women when it seems like it ought to be "natural". My only point is that one of the differences between humans and animals is that some human cultures treat this in a rather secretive manner and we wear clothes and such. I breastfed publicly in my twenties. I believe I was discreet about it but people who knew me well seemed to be shocked by how casually I handled it. Since they couldn't tell I was doing so until I told them I was feeding my kid while walking around the store or sitting in a booth at an eatery, I didn't see what the problem was. To most folks, I appeared to be holding a baby in my arms wrapped in a baby blanket -- which I was. He just also happened to be getting a meal. So I know first-hand how gasp-worthy this is to some folks, even if you are being so discreet about it they didn't realize it was happening until it came up in conversation. (And I was in Germany on an American military post for some of it. It wasn't all in the U.S. or only around Americans.)
  - umjames 16y ago
    I'm sure others have done this already, but have you thought of putting this information on the web to teach other mothers? Considering that breastfeeding is so important on multiple levels, it couldn't hurt to have one more place for mothers to learn this skill.
    - Mz 16y ago
      A) I thought I had posted something to the web about that on someone else's site, but the link from my site to theirs is dead and the internet informs me the domain name in question has expired. So I can't even confirm if I did a breastfeeding story. (I think I did it as one of two contributions -- if I really obsess about it, I might be able to find it in my email somewhere.) B) I have a parenting site that I want to develop more. I have been thinking since writing the above that I should probably post info about breastfeeding to it as well. It was extremely important to the well being of my oldest child, who has a serious health issue and needed the extra support it provided. That site has languished while I got myself well, started my life over post-divorce...yadda yadda. Thanks for the suggestion/encouragement. :-)
- rsheridan6 16y ago
  Human babies are less well developed than newborns of most other species, so it can be harder for them to figure it out. We have to be born earlier or our heads would be too big.
KoZeN 16y ago
One thing I was not aware of until we went to ante-natal classes was that the ability to breastfeed is triggered by a subconscious control in the brain. I always ignorantly assumed that the suction when a baby latches on pulls the milk from the breast and I was genuinely astonished to learn that when the baby latches on it actually triggers the brain into thinking 'I now need to release the milk' and the act of releasing milk is a cognitive one and not a physical one. I don't think most people realise this fact and unfortunately the majority of the focus around breastfeeding is on the pro's and cons as opposed to the correct techniques and mentality required to feed successfully. I can understand completely why it would appear easier for most mammals compared to humans as most mammals aren't aware how difficult the process may potentially be for obvious reasons.
Sukotto 16y ago
Are modern women somehow fighting against nature in the way they breastfeed? Have the "natural skills" been lost in the modern lifestyle? No to the first, maybe to the second. Evolution A/B testing only works at the level where something influences the ability of successive generations to survive. It also selects for whatever barely works. As far as evolution is concerned, there is no difference between it being easy to do, and learnable. If all women end up learning (say, for other more experienced mothers), then there's nothing for evolution to select for. It's unfortunate for the woman who has trouble at first (like my wife, for instance) but it clearly isn't evolutionarily significant.
ern 16y ago
My theory about this is that much collective knowlege of breastfeeding was lost during the years when baby formula was in vogue. I expect this to change, so that, by the time today's baby girls become mothers, they will be able to breastfeed without having to turn to professional "lacation consultants", relying on reestablished collective knowledge and the experience of their own mothers instead.
Retric 16y ago
I suspect some of this relates to the evolutionarily recent increase in Brest size. If you compare how an ape breast feeds vs a human there is significant advantages to a flat chest.

tocomment 16y ago

I've always wondered this too. Most mammals seem to figure it out effortlessly. Perhaps since the time we've had hands and been able to grind up food for babies, breast-feeding has been somewhat optional so there hasn't been much selection pressure on us for millions of years to keep breast feeding working well. That's the only theory I've got.

Mz 16y ago
I've always wondered this too. Most mammals seem to figure it out effortlessly. Most mammals have mammaries that are purely functional and only round out due to filling with milk. Human female breasts are full for other reasons, too full in fact to be baby-friendly. Most other mammals also feed their offspring in plain view of others of their species, which means there is plenty of opportunity to observe how it is done. In human cultures, we debate the morality of -- gasp! -- breastfeeding in public. When it is done in public at all, it is handled very discretely so no one gets a glimpse of someone's breast or, god forbid, nipple. Not exactly a learning opportunity for any other women who happen to be around who might someday have a baby themselves and might want to breastfeed. Part of my experience with this subject: I breastfed my oldest until he was nearly 2 and my youngest rejected the breast very early (due to lactose intolerance), breastfeeding full-time for only 10 days and part-time until he was 6 weeks old. And I helped my sister address some issues she had with her baby so she could successfully breastfeed.
- MoreMoschops 16y ago
  " In human cultures, we debate the morality of -- gasp! -- breastfeeding in public." What of human cultures outside the U.S.?
  - Mz 16y ago
    I would tend to assume that in cultures where the birth rate is sufficiently high, breastfeeding is sufficiently common and where such matters are handled more openly than is typical in the US, you would be less likely to hear people expressing bafflement as to why this seems to be so hard for some/many women when it seems like it ought to be "natural". My only point is that one of the differences between humans and animals is that some human cultures treat this in a rather secretive manner and we wear clothes and such. I breastfed publicly in my twenties. I believe I was discreet about it but people who knew me well seemed to be shocked by how casually I handled it. Since they couldn't tell I was doing so until I told them I was feeding my kid while walking around the store or sitting in a booth at an eatery, I didn't see what the problem was. To most folks, I appeared to be holding a baby in my arms wrapped in a baby blanket -- which I was. He just also happened to be getting a meal. So I know first-hand how gasp-worthy this is to some folks, even if you are being so discreet about it they didn't realize it was happening until it came up in conversation. (And I was in Germany on an American military post for some of it. It wasn't all in the U.S. or only around Americans.)
- umjames 16y ago
  I'm sure others have done this already, but have you thought of putting this information on the web to teach other mothers? Considering that breastfeeding is so important on multiple levels, it couldn't hurt to have one more place for mothers to learn this skill.
  - Mz 16y ago
    A) I thought I had posted something to the web about that on someone else's site, but the link from my site to theirs is dead and the internet informs me the domain name in question has expired. So I can't even confirm if I did a breastfeeding story. (I think I did it as one of two contributions -- if I really obsess about it, I might be able to find it in my email somewhere.) B) I have a parenting site that I want to develop more. I have been thinking since writing the above that I should probably post info about breastfeeding to it as well. It was extremely important to the well being of my oldest child, who has a serious health issue and needed the extra support it provided. That site has languished while I got myself well, started my life over post-divorce...yadda yadda. Thanks for the suggestion/encouragement. :-)
rsheridan6 16y ago
Human babies are less well developed than newborns of most other species, so it can be harder for them to figure it out. We have to be born earlier or our heads would be too big.

KoZeN 16y ago

One thing I was not aware of until we went to ante-natal classes was that the ability to breastfeed is triggered by a subconscious control in the brain. I always ignorantly assumed that the suction when a baby latches on pulls the milk from the breast and I was genuinely astonished to learn that when the baby latches on it actually triggers the brain into thinking 'I now need to release the milk' and the act of releasing milk is a cognitive one and not a physical one. I don't think most people realise this fact and unfortunately the majority of the focus around breastfeeding is on the pro's and cons as opposed to the correct techniques and mentality required to feed successfully. I can understand completely why it would appear easier for most mammals compared to humans as most mammals aren't aware how difficult the process may potentially be for obvious reasons.

Sukotto 16y ago

Are modern women somehow fighting against nature in the way they breastfeed? Have the "natural skills" been lost in the modern lifestyle? No to the first, maybe to the second. Evolution A/B testing only works at the level where something influences the ability of successive generations to survive. It also selects for whatever barely works. As far as evolution is concerned, there is no difference between it being easy to do, and learnable. If all women end up learning (say, for other more experienced mothers), then there's nothing for evolution to select for. It's unfortunate for the woman who has trouble at first (like my wife, for instance) but it clearly isn't evolutionarily significant.

ern 16y ago

My theory about this is that much collective knowlege of breastfeeding was lost during the years when baby formula was in vogue. I expect this to change, so that, by the time today's baby girls become mothers, they will be able to breastfeed without having to turn to professional "lacation consultants", relying on reestablished collective knowledge and the experience of their own mothers instead.

Retric 16y ago

I suspect some of this relates to the evolutionarily recent increase in Brest size. If you compare how an ape breast feeds vs a human there is significant advantages to a flat chest.