5 ms·

I hope (though I'm not truly that optimistic) in a decade that the trend of F2P will have passed. I find them extremely parasitic, exploiting human behavior. I

by colmvp 9y ago

I hope (though I'm not truly that optimistic) in a decade that the trend of F2P will have passed. I find them extremely parasitic, exploiting human behavior. I also hate the term free-to-play, because it purposefully hides the fact that for many games, you either need to grind a lot to acquire content/in-game currency or have to spend a lot.

on_and_off 9y ago
Well, our language is a very blunt instrument and often gets in the way of clear and nuanced communication. Almost all the products advertised as free ask for some other form of payment. Not all of them are harmful, far from it, but we fail at discussing it if we can't even name these different variations. There is the game platform that will give you games for free because it wants you to register so there is less friction later on when you want to buy something there. Also, this way you have registered your mail in order to send you ads. Many services on the web are free but this time they mine your personal information in order to target ads Free to play games want to hook you like an addict using manipulation techniques. Etc They are all very different, and not necessarily all bad, but we don't even differentiate them that well in my opinion.
stingraycharles 9y ago
Just yesterday I was looking for a simcity-like game for my iPad to play that didn’t use microtransactions. It’s simply not there. Not a single city simulator that you can actually play without paying for some stupid credit system. I was easily willing to spend $10 for such a game, because of the scarcity. I would expect some indy dev to jump into this space, but I guess microtransactions are just too lucrative?
- cwyers 9y ago
  > I was easily willing to spend $10 for such a game, because of the scarcity. Your willingness to pay $10 for a SimCity-style game probably explains the scarcity. If you and enough others were willing to pay $40-60, you'd find that game.
  - gberger 9y ago
    I would pay $40-60 for an AAA console or PC game, not for a random mobile game. For that, $10 is about right.
    - Noos 9y ago
      but if you want the sim city experience, you want a AAA game. It's just not profitable to make that kind of game for $10. So you're never going to get it. If you only want to pay $10 for a mobile game tops, you will get what that $10 is worth; a 4-5 hour experience with little replayability, but has great graphics and is fun. Someone is not going to recreate a AAA title that had millions of dollars put into it in their bedroom for maybe 23k people to pay $10 for it, or even less.
      - stingraycharles 9y ago
        I don’t expect game mechanics as refined as SimCity, or graphics like that. All I want is a sim game that doesn’t land me into a brick wall after a day because they want me to pay to expand my territory beyond 100 square foot.
        cwyers 9y ago
        And if it was worth it to do that for ten bucks, someone probably would have already. But mobile app consumers are incredibly price sensitive, and so you see the market dominated by crap and F2P, and sometimes even F2P crap.
        stingraycharles 9y ago
        So you think this is an actual requirement, rather than game studios just trying to maximize ROI by going after the whales using F2P? I simply find it hard to believe game development suddenly became so much more expensive in the last few years of F2P rise. Isn’t this just about a whole industry discovering an opportunity, and accordingly a new standard of expectations of money to be made ?
- norlys 9y ago
  Try Cities: Skylines. They offer a lot of (in my opinion) overpriced DLCs, but it's already a great game without them. You can get it in a Humble Bundle for about 10(?) bucks right now.
  - james-skemp 9y ago
    They said iPad though. Cities: Skylines is great, but there isn't a similar experience on mobile.
- cableshaft 9y ago
  Probably won't quite scratch the same itch, but check out the Suburbia Board Game iOS app. It was a board game inspired by city building games that's fairly popular, that has since been converted to an iOS game. It won't make pretty cities, but it will give you some interesting choices, at least, and has multiple scenarios and levels you can play. It's only $3. No microtransactions, and if it has any DLC it's only going to be the expansions that came out for the physical board game. https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/suburbia-city-building-board-game/id681966300?mt=8 https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/suburbia-city-building-board...
  - pavel_lishin 9y ago
    Also available on Android, which is good, because I just bought it: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.suburbiagame.suburbia&rdid=com.suburbiagame.suburbia https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.suburbiaga...
    - cableshaft 9y ago
      From what I see in the app reviews the tutorial isn't too helpful in the app. You might want to watch a review of the board game to get a feel for it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J-B7CZKj2Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J-B7CZKj2Q
skocznymroczny 9y ago
I think that there is a big gap between predatory mobile style F2P and other F2P games. I like the F2P games. In the past, you had to spend money to have something to play and the game would last you for a short while. Nowadays, if you are into competitive gameplay, you can just install League of Legends, DOTA2, TF2, Paladins, Starcraft 2 and lots of MMOs and play for years without paying anything. In most of these games, you only pay for cosmetic stuff, or for early unlocks, but they aren't really necessary to progress. That's the good side of F2P. But then you have the nasty "you run out of energy, pay $5 to recover" games, which milk you each step of the way and aren't fun at all without paying. These should be frowned upon.
- beaconstudios 9y ago
  I think one of the main reasons F2Ps have become so prominent is that players want something for nothing - sure, you get all these games for free (but then, most players could easily afford $40 for a game they'll spend hours on) but then your weighted cost of development will get offloaded onto either some rich person with too much time on their hands (ethically fine) or someone with chronic gaming addiction or depression who spends all their money on microtransactions (ethically not fine). I'd much rather live in a world where people were just more happy to pay for things they consume - we'd have a lot less exploitative business practices if this were the case.
  - Kurtz79 9y ago
    "I'd much rather live in a world where people were just more happy to pay for things they consume" As an "old" and grumpy gamer, I agree, but I think we are past that point. Nowadays I think new gamers are losing track of the fact that they are supposed to play to have fun, and see getting rewards as the only end-goal. Recently Hearthstone (collectible card game) announced a free roguelike single-player mode, and the only thing many people in the community can think of is that the only reward for completing it is a minor cosmetic item, and that is not sufficient, that they should be better compensated for the time "invested" in it. Mind, it is an attitude that is a consequence of the culture of microtransations and lootboxes that also Blizzard helped to establish, so it's hard to take the company's side.

by colmvp 9y ago

on_and_off 9y ago

Well, our language is a very blunt instrument and often gets in the way of clear and nuanced communication. Almost all the products advertised as free ask for some other form of payment. Not all of them are harmful, far from it, but we fail at discussing it if we can't even name these different variations. There is the game platform that will give you games for free because it wants you to register so there is less friction later on when you want to buy something there. Also, this way you have registered your mail in order to send you ads. Many services on the web are free but this time they mine your personal information in order to target ads Free to play games want to hook you like an addict using manipulation techniques. Etc They are all very different, and not necessarily all bad, but we don't even differentiate them that well in my opinion.

stingraycharles 9y ago

Just yesterday I was looking for a simcity-like game for my iPad to play that didn’t use microtransactions. It’s simply not there. Not a single city simulator that you can actually play without paying for some stupid credit system. I was easily willing to spend $10 for such a game, because of the scarcity. I would expect some indy dev to jump into this space, but I guess microtransactions are just too lucrative?

cwyers 9y ago
> I was easily willing to spend $10 for such a game, because of the scarcity. Your willingness to pay $10 for a SimCity-style game probably explains the scarcity. If you and enough others were willing to pay $40-60, you'd find that game.
- gberger 9y ago
  I would pay $40-60 for an AAA console or PC game, not for a random mobile game. For that, $10 is about right.
  - Noos 9y ago
    but if you want the sim city experience, you want a AAA game. It's just not profitable to make that kind of game for $10. So you're never going to get it. If you only want to pay $10 for a mobile game tops, you will get what that $10 is worth; a 4-5 hour experience with little replayability, but has great graphics and is fun. Someone is not going to recreate a AAA title that had millions of dollars put into it in their bedroom for maybe 23k people to pay $10 for it, or even less.
    - stingraycharles 9y ago
      I don’t expect game mechanics as refined as SimCity, or graphics like that. All I want is a sim game that doesn’t land me into a brick wall after a day because they want me to pay to expand my territory beyond 100 square foot.
      - cwyers 9y ago
        And if it was worth it to do that for ten bucks, someone probably would have already. But mobile app consumers are incredibly price sensitive, and so you see the market dominated by crap and F2P, and sometimes even F2P crap.
        stingraycharles 9y ago
        So you think this is an actual requirement, rather than game studios just trying to maximize ROI by going after the whales using F2P? I simply find it hard to believe game development suddenly became so much more expensive in the last few years of F2P rise. Isn’t this just about a whole industry discovering an opportunity, and accordingly a new standard of expectations of money to be made ?
norlys 9y ago
Try Cities: Skylines. They offer a lot of (in my opinion) overpriced DLCs, but it's already a great game without them. You can get it in a Humble Bundle for about 10(?) bucks right now.
- james-skemp 9y ago
  They said iPad though. Cities: Skylines is great, but there isn't a similar experience on mobile.
cableshaft 9y ago
Probably won't quite scratch the same itch, but check out the Suburbia Board Game iOS app. It was a board game inspired by city building games that's fairly popular, that has since been converted to an iOS game. It won't make pretty cities, but it will give you some interesting choices, at least, and has multiple scenarios and levels you can play. It's only $3. No microtransactions, and if it has any DLC it's only going to be the expansions that came out for the physical board game. https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/suburbia-city-building-board-game/id681966300?mt=8 https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/suburbia-city-building-board...
- pavel_lishin 9y ago
  Also available on Android, which is good, because I just bought it: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.suburbiagame.suburbia&rdid=com.suburbiagame.suburbia https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.suburbiaga...
  - cableshaft 9y ago
    From what I see in the app reviews the tutorial isn't too helpful in the app. You might want to watch a review of the board game to get a feel for it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J-B7CZKj2Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J-B7CZKj2Q

skocznymroczny 9y ago

I think that there is a big gap between predatory mobile style F2P and other F2P games. I like the F2P games. In the past, you had to spend money to have something to play and the game would last you for a short while. Nowadays, if you are into competitive gameplay, you can just install League of Legends, DOTA2, TF2, Paladins, Starcraft 2 and lots of MMOs and play for years without paying anything. In most of these games, you only pay for cosmetic stuff, or for early unlocks, but they aren't really necessary to progress. That's the good side of F2P. But then you have the nasty "you run out of energy, pay $5 to recover" games, which milk you each step of the way and aren't fun at all without paying. These should be frowned upon.

beaconstudios 9y ago
I think one of the main reasons F2Ps have become so prominent is that players want something for nothing - sure, you get all these games for free (but then, most players could easily afford $40 for a game they'll spend hours on) but then your weighted cost of development will get offloaded onto either some rich person with too much time on their hands (ethically fine) or someone with chronic gaming addiction or depression who spends all their money on microtransactions (ethically not fine). I'd much rather live in a world where people were just more happy to pay for things they consume - we'd have a lot less exploitative business practices if this were the case.
- Kurtz79 9y ago
  "I'd much rather live in a world where people were just more happy to pay for things they consume" As an "old" and grumpy gamer, I agree, but I think we are past that point. Nowadays I think new gamers are losing track of the fact that they are supposed to play to have fun, and see getting rewards as the only end-goal. Recently Hearthstone (collectible card game) announced a free roguelike single-player mode, and the only thing many people in the community can think of is that the only reward for completing it is a minor cosmetic item, and that is not sufficient, that they should be better compensated for the time "invested" in it. Mind, it is an attitude that is a consequence of the culture of microtransations and lootboxes that also Blizzard helped to establish, so it's hard to take the company's side.