5 ms·

I am a woman. I think she ought to tone it down a bit. I blogged about that. Edit: ironically this comment was being ignored as long as I had the disclaimer in

by Mz 9y ago

I am a woman. I think she ought to tone it down a bit. I blogged about that. Edit: ironically this comment was being ignored as long as I had the disclaimer in it that I am routinely accused of victim blaming for trying to empower women. I removed it because I also get constantly accused of making things about me. The second it was removed, a personal attack in violation of the guidelines was posted as a reply and now my comment has been downvoted. Here is the blogpost in question in case anyone wants to read it instead of knee-jerk assuming I am just some sexually uptight prude: http://michelerebooted.blogspot.com/2017/11/how-i-try-to-direct-attention-as-woman.html http://michelerebooted.blogspot.com/2017/11/how-i-try-to-dir...

awesomepantsm 9y ago
That's nice, why should I care what you think about how some random person in the 7 billion people in the world should dress.
- Mz 9y ago
  That's nice. What makes you think I care to hear about your open contempt and dismissiveness of my opinion?
  - devnonymous 9y ago
    Do you not see the irony here? Not only to the comment here but also in your opinion of how Naomi should (or should not) conduct herself online.
- sctb 9y ago
  You have a history of posting unsubstantive comments here. Could you please not do it again? We ban accounts that clearly have no intention of following the guidelines. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
couchand 9y ago
I think there is a concern in our society that both men and women tend to spend an inordinate amount of time judging and commenting on the appearance, tone, and other superficial characteristics of women. If we're to make effective progress as a society we need to be very careful about this. My reading of awesomepantsm's comment is that it conveys the idea that it doesn't matter what any of us think about what someone is wearing, we should be concerned with the thoughts they are expressing. I never saw your post in the original form, only in the shortest version and then with the most recent edit. I found your blog post on my own, and I see it's much more nuanced than your comment here (I suppose that's to be expected). Your blog post seems to indicate that you wouldn't dress like that. Fair enough, the rationale you describe is illuminating. But how does that extend to a normative expectation on the behavior of another? That's what I think is problematic.
- Mz 9y ago
  I wouldn't dress that way because I am 52 and I don't look like that. If you've got it, flaunt it. If I looked like that, I might be doing exactly the same thing. But the main point of my post is this: years of trying to get meaty engagement on HN has taught me that men will tend to see me through the lens of sex first and foremost. It has proven to be counterproductive to either expect men to never think of me that way, or to actively encourage that focus or cooperate with other people framing me as primarily or solely a sex object. It was written in hopes of helping women think about how to effectively navigate a man's world. It has nothing to do with suggesting a normative anything. I am saying that a woman's sexuality is hers to do with as she pleases. In my experience, that is an extremely radical position. Lots of men would like women to be more free to say yes to them. That doesn't mean they like it when someone like me says "They are free to use it any damn way they so choose, your agenda to fuck them be damned."
  - couchand 9y ago
    Perhaps I misinterpreted your previous comment "I think she ought to tone it down a bit."
    - 9y ago

by Mz 9y ago

awesomepantsm 9y ago

That's nice, why should I care what you think about how some random person in the 7 billion people in the world should dress.

Mz 9y ago
That's nice. What makes you think I care to hear about your open contempt and dismissiveness of my opinion?
- devnonymous 9y ago
  Do you not see the irony here? Not only to the comment here but also in your opinion of how Naomi should (or should not) conduct herself online.
sctb 9y ago
You have a history of posting unsubstantive comments here. Could you please not do it again? We ban accounts that clearly have no intention of following the guidelines. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

couchand 9y ago

I think there is a concern in our society that both men and women tend to spend an inordinate amount of time judging and commenting on the appearance, tone, and other superficial characteristics of women. If we're to make effective progress as a society we need to be very careful about this. My reading of awesomepantsm's comment is that it conveys the idea that it doesn't matter what any of us think about what someone is wearing, we should be concerned with the thoughts they are expressing. I never saw your post in the original form, only in the shortest version and then with the most recent edit. I found your blog post on my own, and I see it's much more nuanced than your comment here (I suppose that's to be expected). Your blog post seems to indicate that you wouldn't dress like that. Fair enough, the rationale you describe is illuminating. But how does that extend to a normative expectation on the behavior of another? That's what I think is problematic.

Mz 9y ago
I wouldn't dress that way because I am 52 and I don't look like that. If you've got it, flaunt it. If I looked like that, I might be doing exactly the same thing. But the main point of my post is this: years of trying to get meaty engagement on HN has taught me that men will tend to see me through the lens of sex first and foremost. It has proven to be counterproductive to either expect men to never think of me that way, or to actively encourage that focus or cooperate with other people framing me as primarily or solely a sex object. It was written in hopes of helping women think about how to effectively navigate a man's world. It has nothing to do with suggesting a normative anything. I am saying that a woman's sexuality is hers to do with as she pleases. In my experience, that is an extremely radical position. Lots of men would like women to be more free to say yes to them. That doesn't mean they like it when someone like me says "They are free to use it any damn way they so choose, your agenda to fuck them be damned."
- couchand 9y ago
  Perhaps I misinterpreted your previous comment "I think she ought to tone it down a bit."
  - 9y ago