17 ms·

America's Growing Gap in Digital Job Skills

77 points by stevenmays 9y ago

Mz 9y ago
Anyone know of any programs, tools, best practices, whatever for trying to improve this in areas that are being left behind?
- voltagex_ 9y ago
  I found this via VICE's Motherboard. https://www.alliedmedia.org/dctp/eii https://www.alliedmedia.org/dctp/eii - mainly focused on community Internet access, but also some digital literacy stuff.
  - Mz 9y ago
    Thanks. If anyone else replies, I am in a small town and people are responding to me with "oh, you are a web designer! We could use your help!" I am not a web designer. But I am a content creator and can serve as a content manager and I am willing to foster some development here. The town has high speed internet and an excellent library. But Facebook seems to be the big thing here. And there is lots of room for growth.
- crispyambulance 9y ago
  While it might be possible to see some small improvements with digital literacy initiatives and "up-skilling", educators will tell you that there's a much deeper, larger problem that is the root cause of all of this. Literacy is paramount, NOT digital literacy, I mean the ability to read, write, and perform basic mathematics. Public schools in America are floundering when it comes to basic education. Students leave school without the most fundamental skills required to do anything other than menial labor, let alone author insipid React components. That's a giant scary problem that is accelerating, and there will be a very ugly comeuppance in the USA for neglecting education.
  - empath75 9y ago
    Honestly if you know how to troubleshoot and use google, you’re 90% of the way to a successful IT career. It’s remarkable how hard it is to find people who know how to solve problems in the general case, rather than know how to use some specific technology.
    - crispyambulance 9y ago
      Yes, being able to "[solve] problems in the general case" is the ultimate positive outcome of a proper education and it has little to do with whether or not the student has been exposed to computer science in their K12 curriculum.
  - Mz 9y ago
    I am not looking to save all of America. I am just looking for actionable advice pertinent to addressing some things in my tiny corner of the world. I am speaking with literate, competent people. I recently spoke with a guy who is wealthy and a co-owner of a local successful business that has been around a long time. He is a local mover and shaker. He told me he does not own a computer at all. Meanwhile, the website for his company has one of the best local websites I have tripped across, his business card lists his email address and he carries a very nice smartphone. I imagine he can get online with his smartphone, yet he apparently does not consider that to be a computer for purposes of viewing my websites. He didn't want my email. He wanted me to text message him my phone number. He is a very intelligent man with a lot going on, but he straight up told me "I am [x age], I am not going to learn this stuff." I know people about that same age on Hacker News who program, etc. Unemployment is high in this town. I would like to start hooking people up with earning opportunities that already exist on the internet. I am facing a lot of challenges in trying to connect to people. But I think there is a huge opportunity here for making some headway against some of the local problems via spreading the word that the internet is not just a place to watch YouTube videos and hang out on Facebook. There is a lot more going on in cyberspace than that and you can have a lot more going on in your life for the price of a (free) library card and a little digital literacy. I find it frustrating that every question I have posted so far on Hacker News related to this desire of mine has been generally met with so little real support, for example the utter lack of reply here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15729897 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15729897
coliveira 9y ago
The USA is trying to remain a leader in technology and science, while at the same time it is debasing education at all levels and reducing research expenditures. This sounds to me like a recipe for failure...
- tomjen3 9y ago
  Not sure that is the case when you factor in private money being spent on e.g. Ai at Google and Facebook.
  - crispyambulance 9y ago
    Guys, they're talking about the debasement of "human learning"... Machine learning is another subject. :-)
  - PostOnce 9y ago
    There are 55 million people in elementary/middle/high school in America, and 20 million in a college or university. Google employs 74,000 people, so, there are a thousand times more students than Google employees, and obviously not all of those employees are working on AI; I assume most of them are sales & admin. Facebook employs less than a third of that at 20,000. A drop in the ocean compared to all the students that are being chronically underserved and undereducated.
    - baldfat 9y ago
      The "Divide" in the US is Inner-City Schools and poor Rural Schools. If you look at the rest of America's schools they are among the best in the world. If you take just Massachusetts scores they one of the top 5 in the world. http://www.doe.mass.edu/news/news.aspx?id=24050 http://www.doe.mass.edu/news/news.aspx?id=24050 The big issue is how we fund schools. It is based on the value of your home divided by the number of children that lives in said homes. Since the richer you are the less children you have they get more money. http://www.economist.com/node/21561112 http://www.economist.com/node/21561112 Until we take the funding of school's to the state level we can talk till we are blue in the face and we will continue to have a "Divide." I don't understand why the AARP and other groups don't jump on the bandwagon and remove the burden of school tax off the backs of fixed income home owners. Fair funding is the foundation that will happen only if the US Court System steps in, because I can't see this happening any other way. For Pennsylvania they have the biggest gap in the nation with the poorest Charter School Law in America. http://fairfundingpa.org/resources/infographics/ http://fairfundingpa.org/resources/infographics/
thisisit 9y ago
I wonder how much is this due to how software is being engineered and UI/UX problem? An example being software updates on phones. When I got my parents their first android phone, the app drawer worked on swiping left/right. Then came the change in orientation where the swipe went to up/down. My parents were confused and routinely called me to ask how to make the phone work. Just today I had an app which showed different categories on clicking tabs on top changed to swipe up and down with a small button to choose categories at the bottom. These kind of changes leaves people more confused. They like to stick to older versions and hence left behind on any thing new.
- tonyedgecombe 9y ago
  My parents were confused and routinely called me to ask how to make the phone work. That sounds so funny.
  - vturner 9y ago
    It's most certainly not funny when you've lived it. My mother is routinely frustrated by her android phone I bought her due to unending UI tweaks. It's striking how to us software developers what is an exciting new feature or nice cosmetic change is nothing more than a pain point for many people. Digital devices to many people are tools not toys. When we realize this, it's easy to understand how a change is not fun for them but merely work.
    - tonyedgecombe 9y ago
      Sorry, I didn't mean it's funny dealing with your parents, I know that feeling myself. Rather that they phoned you because their phone didn't work.
      - vturner 9y ago
        Ah, I see now :) I didn't catch the irony there before. My apologies fory hasty comment.
  - 9y ago
gaius 9y ago
gender, race, and ethnicity All of which are insignificant compared to ageism. That's the telltale that there is no genuine skills shortage; employers are happy to overlook a large talent pool. The author of the piece even feels the need to mention both "race" and "ethnicity" to pad out the words!
- BoiledCabbage 9y ago
  > The author of the piece even feels the need to mention both "race" and "ethnicity" to pad out the words Do you understand the difference between the words? I can't figure out any other context in which this comment makes sense.
  - carlmr 9y ago
    Cause it doesn't.
  - jdavis703 9y ago
    In case the OP is genuinely ignorant of the difference: race is a psuedo-scientific category based on a person's skin color. For example a person could belong to the Latino ethnic group and yet appear to be white or black. Another case someone could be African American or Yoruba and yet both would be considered black, despite the major cultural differences.
    - jonatron 9y ago
      Not according to the dictionary.
      - yorwba 9y ago
        It would be helpful if you could specify which dictionary you used, which definitions are given by that dictionary and why none of them match.
      - gaius 9y ago
        Don't worry, as a non-white I am quite accustomed to having race whitesplained at me.
vturner 9y ago
Interesting article until one notices a couple points...theres the geographic metro dot plot but there's also this statement early on? "(The study notes some limitations to these O*NET data, which are reported as aggregates, and not available on the micro level. This means that digitalization scores are assigned nationally, without regard to location, which could introduce potential inaccuracies at the local level.)" Did I miss something, does the data have metro labeling or something? And finally, that last graph I'm not sure is showing much correlation. R^2 of ~.26?
- boomboomsubban 9y ago
  The graph says it also uses Occupational Employment Statistics data, which tracks the number of people in those industries.

77 points by stevenmays 9y ago

Mz 9y ago

Anyone know of any programs, tools, best practices, whatever for trying to improve this in areas that are being left behind?

voltagex_ 9y ago
I found this via VICE's Motherboard. https://www.alliedmedia.org/dctp/eii https://www.alliedmedia.org/dctp/eii - mainly focused on community Internet access, but also some digital literacy stuff.
- Mz 9y ago
  Thanks. If anyone else replies, I am in a small town and people are responding to me with "oh, you are a web designer! We could use your help!" I am not a web designer. But I am a content creator and can serve as a content manager and I am willing to foster some development here. The town has high speed internet and an excellent library. But Facebook seems to be the big thing here. And there is lots of room for growth.
crispyambulance 9y ago
While it might be possible to see some small improvements with digital literacy initiatives and "up-skilling", educators will tell you that there's a much deeper, larger problem that is the root cause of all of this. Literacy is paramount, NOT digital literacy, I mean the ability to read, write, and perform basic mathematics. Public schools in America are floundering when it comes to basic education. Students leave school without the most fundamental skills required to do anything other than menial labor, let alone author insipid React components. That's a giant scary problem that is accelerating, and there will be a very ugly comeuppance in the USA for neglecting education.
- empath75 9y ago
  Honestly if you know how to troubleshoot and use google, you’re 90% of the way to a successful IT career. It’s remarkable how hard it is to find people who know how to solve problems in the general case, rather than know how to use some specific technology.
  - crispyambulance 9y ago
    Yes, being able to "[solve] problems in the general case" is the ultimate positive outcome of a proper education and it has little to do with whether or not the student has been exposed to computer science in their K12 curriculum.
- Mz 9y ago
  I am not looking to save all of America. I am just looking for actionable advice pertinent to addressing some things in my tiny corner of the world. I am speaking with literate, competent people. I recently spoke with a guy who is wealthy and a co-owner of a local successful business that has been around a long time. He is a local mover and shaker. He told me he does not own a computer at all. Meanwhile, the website for his company has one of the best local websites I have tripped across, his business card lists his email address and he carries a very nice smartphone. I imagine he can get online with his smartphone, yet he apparently does not consider that to be a computer for purposes of viewing my websites. He didn't want my email. He wanted me to text message him my phone number. He is a very intelligent man with a lot going on, but he straight up told me "I am [x age], I am not going to learn this stuff." I know people about that same age on Hacker News who program, etc. Unemployment is high in this town. I would like to start hooking people up with earning opportunities that already exist on the internet. I am facing a lot of challenges in trying to connect to people. But I think there is a huge opportunity here for making some headway against some of the local problems via spreading the word that the internet is not just a place to watch YouTube videos and hang out on Facebook. There is a lot more going on in cyberspace than that and you can have a lot more going on in your life for the price of a (free) library card and a little digital literacy. I find it frustrating that every question I have posted so far on Hacker News related to this desire of mine has been generally met with so little real support, for example the utter lack of reply here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15729897 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15729897

coliveira 9y ago

The USA is trying to remain a leader in technology and science, while at the same time it is debasing education at all levels and reducing research expenditures. This sounds to me like a recipe for failure...

tomjen3 9y ago
Not sure that is the case when you factor in private money being spent on e.g. Ai at Google and Facebook.
- crispyambulance 9y ago
  Guys, they're talking about the debasement of "human learning"... Machine learning is another subject. :-)
- PostOnce 9y ago
  There are 55 million people in elementary/middle/high school in America, and 20 million in a college or university. Google employs 74,000 people, so, there are a thousand times more students than Google employees, and obviously not all of those employees are working on AI; I assume most of them are sales & admin. Facebook employs less than a third of that at 20,000. A drop in the ocean compared to all the students that are being chronically underserved and undereducated.
  - baldfat 9y ago
    The "Divide" in the US is Inner-City Schools and poor Rural Schools. If you look at the rest of America's schools they are among the best in the world. If you take just Massachusetts scores they one of the top 5 in the world. http://www.doe.mass.edu/news/news.aspx?id=24050 http://www.doe.mass.edu/news/news.aspx?id=24050 The big issue is how we fund schools. It is based on the value of your home divided by the number of children that lives in said homes. Since the richer you are the less children you have they get more money. http://www.economist.com/node/21561112 http://www.economist.com/node/21561112 Until we take the funding of school's to the state level we can talk till we are blue in the face and we will continue to have a "Divide." I don't understand why the AARP and other groups don't jump on the bandwagon and remove the burden of school tax off the backs of fixed income home owners. Fair funding is the foundation that will happen only if the US Court System steps in, because I can't see this happening any other way. For Pennsylvania they have the biggest gap in the nation with the poorest Charter School Law in America. http://fairfundingpa.org/resources/infographics/ http://fairfundingpa.org/resources/infographics/

thisisit 9y ago

I wonder how much is this due to how software is being engineered and UI/UX problem? An example being software updates on phones. When I got my parents their first android phone, the app drawer worked on swiping left/right. Then came the change in orientation where the swipe went to up/down. My parents were confused and routinely called me to ask how to make the phone work. Just today I had an app which showed different categories on clicking tabs on top changed to swipe up and down with a small button to choose categories at the bottom. These kind of changes leaves people more confused. They like to stick to older versions and hence left behind on any thing new.

tonyedgecombe 9y ago
My parents were confused and routinely called me to ask how to make the phone work. That sounds so funny.
- vturner 9y ago
  It's most certainly not funny when you've lived it. My mother is routinely frustrated by her android phone I bought her due to unending UI tweaks. It's striking how to us software developers what is an exciting new feature or nice cosmetic change is nothing more than a pain point for many people. Digital devices to many people are tools not toys. When we realize this, it's easy to understand how a change is not fun for them but merely work.
  - tonyedgecombe 9y ago
    Sorry, I didn't mean it's funny dealing with your parents, I know that feeling myself. Rather that they phoned you because their phone didn't work.
    - vturner 9y ago
      Ah, I see now :) I didn't catch the irony there before. My apologies fory hasty comment.
- 9y ago

gaius 9y ago

gender, race, and ethnicity All of which are insignificant compared to ageism. That's the telltale that there is no genuine skills shortage; employers are happy to overlook a large talent pool. The author of the piece even feels the need to mention both "race" and "ethnicity" to pad out the words!

BoiledCabbage 9y ago
> The author of the piece even feels the need to mention both "race" and "ethnicity" to pad out the words Do you understand the difference between the words? I can't figure out any other context in which this comment makes sense.
- carlmr 9y ago
  Cause it doesn't.
- jdavis703 9y ago
  In case the OP is genuinely ignorant of the difference: race is a psuedo-scientific category based on a person's skin color. For example a person could belong to the Latino ethnic group and yet appear to be white or black. Another case someone could be African American or Yoruba and yet both would be considered black, despite the major cultural differences.
  - jonatron 9y ago
    Not according to the dictionary.
    - yorwba 9y ago
      It would be helpful if you could specify which dictionary you used, which definitions are given by that dictionary and why none of them match.
    - gaius 9y ago
      Don't worry, as a non-white I am quite accustomed to having race whitesplained at me.

vturner 9y ago

Interesting article until one notices a couple points...theres the geographic metro dot plot but there's also this statement early on? "(The study notes some limitations to these O*NET data, which are reported as aggregates, and not available on the micro level. This means that digitalization scores are assigned nationally, without regard to location, which could introduce potential inaccuracies at the local level.)" Did I miss something, does the data have metro labeling or something? And finally, that last graph I'm not sure is showing much correlation. R^2 of ~.26?

boomboomsubban 9y ago
The graph says it also uses Occupational Employment Statistics data, which tracks the number of people in those industries.