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An article about getting enough protein without meat and doesn’t talk about essentials aminoacides is worthless. You should read about Protein Digestibility C

by hokkos 9y ago

An article about getting enough protein without meat and doesn’t talk about essentials aminoacides is worthless. You should read about Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Score and the new Digestible Indispensable Amino Acid Score all plant proteins are not equals, and should be eaten simultaneously to avoid deficiencies to have a complete profile to bring muscle protein. Also anabolic response is lower with plant based protein versus animal based and it should talk about B12 as deficiencies in it is a silent killer. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_amino_acid https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_amino_acid https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_Digestibility_Corrected_Amino_Acid_Score https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_Digestibility_Correc... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digestible_Indispensable_Amino_Acid_Score https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digestible_Indispensable_Ami... https://dabamirror.sci-hub.cc/bbb1a373d204d4fe2c1f9a8a38356daf/10.3945@jn.114.204305.pdf https://dabamirror.sci-hub.cc/bbb1a373d204d4fe2c1f9a8a38356d... http://dacemirror.sci-hub.cc/journal-article/a73bbb377b5c4cd9f09d8376d3ef0ad7/volek2013.pdf http://dacemirror.sci-hub.cc/journal-article/a73bbb377b5c4cd...

cies 9y ago
I'd say it is easy to get enough of all animos from a whole plant food diet. Using cronometer[1] it is very easy to demonstrate this, I've done it countless times. On the topic of muscles and protein: https://nutritionfacts.org/video/plant-based-bodybuilding https://nutritionfacts.org/video/plant-based-bodybuilding https://nutritionfacts.org/video/protein-intake-and-igf-1-production https://nutritionfacts.org/video/protein-intake-and-igf-1-pr... https://nutritionfacts.org/video/anabolic-steroids-in-meat https://nutritionfacts.org/video/anabolic-steroids-in-meat On the topic of B12. Many omnis are also B12 deficient, 1 in 5 iirc. In vegans all are eventually B12 deficient under the modern hygiene practices and without supplementation. All B12 originates from microbes that live abundantly in the soil. We are very clean with our food and water, so our plant foods and water are mostly devoid of B12. Pasture fed animals get it "naturally", their factory farmed relatives usually get a B12 supplement. I recommend everyone to get tested for B12 (and D) deficiency as it is very common, and supplement accordingly. Vegans with modern hygiene standards for sure need to supplement (or eat B12-fortified foods). > B12 as deficiencies in it is a silent killer Yes. So get your blood tested, and supplement accordingly. This is not something unique to vegans (though a lot more common). For good supplements consult: https://www.toxinless.com https://www.toxinless.com [1]: https://cronometer.com https://cronometer.com
- passwordqq 9y ago
  Stupid but genuine q- can you explain what you mean by- "We are very clean with our food and water, so our plant foods and water are mostly devoid of B12 " What if we didn't sterilize? Would the bacteria then produce it in our stomach? Once I "get " those bacteria in, do I have to replenish? Or you mean I have to eat those microbes as they themselves contain b12? In which case dead or alive, what does it matter?
- hokkos 9y ago
  I am starting to feel the nutritionfacts.org is bad science too, you can't seriously believe the IGF1 video when it is regularly used as performance enhancing drug for bodybuilders. Also the steroid in meat as been debunked. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1187088/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1187088/ https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/death-as-a-foodborne-illness-curable-by-veganism/ https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/death-as-a-foodborne-illnes... https://www.thatnerdysciencegirl.com/2015/11/13/the-case-against-dr-michael-gregernutritionfacts/ https://www.thatnerdysciencegirl.com/2015/11/13/the-case-aga...
KitDuncan 9y ago
This annoys me so much. The essential amino acid myth has been thoroughly debunked for years. https://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-protein-combining-myth/ https://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-protein-combining-myth/ B12 is the only real deficiency vegans experience and it's easily solved by taking a supplement. B12 isn't some miracle vitamin, exclusive to animal products either. It's produced by bacteria in the soil and since we're usually sterilizing our food, it's not usually found on our produce anymore. That's why livestock are getting it supplemented, just the way vegans are supplementing it. It's not even like eating meat and animal products saves you from B12 deficiency as a big chunk of the population is actually deficient.
- lesiva 9y ago
  I don't completely agree with you about the "essential amino acid myth". While true that plant proteins are not “incomplete”, it is also true that some aren’t absorbed as well [1] and are lower in certain essential amino acids than others. The article/video that you linked suggests that the essential amino acid profiles don't matter, even from plant proteins, because you get more than you need anyway but that's not true for everybody. Importantly, if you're someone who is physically active or looking to gain muscle mass! When you're physically active, your body _does_ use almost all of the protein that you give it (at least, all of the protein it's able to absorb through digestion). And if you give it a deficiency in certain essential aa's that it can't create for itself, you can see less muscle growth. In that case, it is important to either stick to some of the more complete veggie proteins or to consume a combination of proteins that satisfy a complete amino acid profile. I'd be happy to see research to the contrary. I'd also encourage anyone reading to consider a vegetarian or vegan diet. Cutting out meat is pretty easy, even if you have to complement proteins for bodybuilding, and it's one of the best individual contributions you can make to inhibiting climate change. 1. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2710749 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2710749
- passwordqq 9y ago
  Genuine q- can you explain what you mean by- "It's produced by bacteria in the soil and since we're usually sterilizing our food, it's not usually found on our produce anymore. " What if we didn't sterilize? Would the bacteria then produce it in our stomach? Once I "get " those bacteria in, do I have to replenish?
markstos 9y ago
Drawdown.org places "Plant-rich diet" as the 4th most effective change we can make to combat climate change. http://www.drawdown.org/solutions-summary-by-rank http://www.drawdown.org/solutions-summary-by-rank So there's a good deal more at stake here than just optimal protein digestibility uptake rates. Anecdotal, but I recently placed first in my age group and 5th overall in a trail marathon on a nearly vegan diet. Two other the other four in front of me were vegans. In another recent half marathon with over 1,000 runners, a near-vegan diet helped secure 4th out of 90 in my age group, close to the top 10% overall. I wasn't counting calories and certainly not protein. I did lose to close to 30 lbs while also getting faster. I used to have an "afternoon slump" at work, but that's rare now, even when running 7 miles before work. For more interviews with scientists, the Cowspiracy movie (bad name) helps explain why animal agriculture has ended up as a top cause of climate change, and the newer movie "What the Health" interviews a number of doctors and scientists about the relationship between plant-based foods and health.
- lesiva 9y ago
  Correct me if I'm wrong, but the original author was not arguing that we should eat meat for our protein. They were suggesting that if you get your protein from plant sources, you should make sure to hit a complete amino acid profile and you should understand that digestibility is also lower for plant-based proteins.
- hokkos 9y ago
  Cowspiracy has some bad science, but What the Health is pure lies. You should never get your science from documentaries they are all bullshit. https://www.quora.com/How-accurate-is-the-movie-Cowspiracy https://www.quora.com/How-accurate-is-the-movie-Cowspiracy https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/7/25/16018658/what-the-health-documentary-review-vegan-diet https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/7/25/16018658/wh... Even vegans agree : https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/ https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-... >As a vegan health professional, I am sometimes mortified to be associated with the junk science that permeates our community. And as an animal rights activist, I’m disheartened by advocacy efforts that can make us look scientifically illiterate, dishonest, and occasionally like a cult of conspiracy theorists.

by hokkos 9y ago

cies 9y ago

I'd say it is easy to get enough of all animos from a whole plant food diet. Using cronometer[1] it is very easy to demonstrate this, I've done it countless times. On the topic of muscles and protein: https://nutritionfacts.org/video/plant-based-bodybuilding https://nutritionfacts.org/video/plant-based-bodybuilding https://nutritionfacts.org/video/protein-intake-and-igf-1-production https://nutritionfacts.org/video/protein-intake-and-igf-1-pr... https://nutritionfacts.org/video/anabolic-steroids-in-meat https://nutritionfacts.org/video/anabolic-steroids-in-meat On the topic of B12. Many omnis are also B12 deficient, 1 in 5 iirc. In vegans all are eventually B12 deficient under the modern hygiene practices and without supplementation. All B12 originates from microbes that live abundantly in the soil. We are very clean with our food and water, so our plant foods and water are mostly devoid of B12. Pasture fed animals get it "naturally", their factory farmed relatives usually get a B12 supplement. I recommend everyone to get tested for B12 (and D) deficiency as it is very common, and supplement accordingly. Vegans with modern hygiene standards for sure need to supplement (or eat B12-fortified foods). > B12 as deficiencies in it is a silent killer Yes. So get your blood tested, and supplement accordingly. This is not something unique to vegans (though a lot more common). For good supplements consult: https://www.toxinless.com https://www.toxinless.com [1]: https://cronometer.com https://cronometer.com

passwordqq 9y ago
Stupid but genuine q- can you explain what you mean by- "We are very clean with our food and water, so our plant foods and water are mostly devoid of B12 " What if we didn't sterilize? Would the bacteria then produce it in our stomach? Once I "get " those bacteria in, do I have to replenish? Or you mean I have to eat those microbes as they themselves contain b12? In which case dead or alive, what does it matter?
hokkos 9y ago
I am starting to feel the nutritionfacts.org is bad science too, you can't seriously believe the IGF1 video when it is regularly used as performance enhancing drug for bodybuilders. Also the steroid in meat as been debunked. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1187088/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1187088/ https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/death-as-a-foodborne-illness-curable-by-veganism/ https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/death-as-a-foodborne-illnes... https://www.thatnerdysciencegirl.com/2015/11/13/the-case-against-dr-michael-gregernutritionfacts/ https://www.thatnerdysciencegirl.com/2015/11/13/the-case-aga...

KitDuncan 9y ago

This annoys me so much. The essential amino acid myth has been thoroughly debunked for years. https://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-protein-combining-myth/ https://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-protein-combining-myth/ B12 is the only real deficiency vegans experience and it's easily solved by taking a supplement. B12 isn't some miracle vitamin, exclusive to animal products either. It's produced by bacteria in the soil and since we're usually sterilizing our food, it's not usually found on our produce anymore. That's why livestock are getting it supplemented, just the way vegans are supplementing it. It's not even like eating meat and animal products saves you from B12 deficiency as a big chunk of the population is actually deficient.

lesiva 9y ago
I don't completely agree with you about the "essential amino acid myth". While true that plant proteins are not “incomplete”, it is also true that some aren’t absorbed as well [1] and are lower in certain essential amino acids than others. The article/video that you linked suggests that the essential amino acid profiles don't matter, even from plant proteins, because you get more than you need anyway but that's not true for everybody. Importantly, if you're someone who is physically active or looking to gain muscle mass! When you're physically active, your body _does_ use almost all of the protein that you give it (at least, all of the protein it's able to absorb through digestion). And if you give it a deficiency in certain essential aa's that it can't create for itself, you can see less muscle growth. In that case, it is important to either stick to some of the more complete veggie proteins or to consume a combination of proteins that satisfy a complete amino acid profile. I'd be happy to see research to the contrary. I'd also encourage anyone reading to consider a vegetarian or vegan diet. Cutting out meat is pretty easy, even if you have to complement proteins for bodybuilding, and it's one of the best individual contributions you can make to inhibiting climate change. 1. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2710749 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2710749
passwordqq 9y ago
Genuine q- can you explain what you mean by- "It's produced by bacteria in the soil and since we're usually sterilizing our food, it's not usually found on our produce anymore. " What if we didn't sterilize? Would the bacteria then produce it in our stomach? Once I "get " those bacteria in, do I have to replenish?

markstos 9y ago

Drawdown.org places "Plant-rich diet" as the 4th most effective change we can make to combat climate change. http://www.drawdown.org/solutions-summary-by-rank http://www.drawdown.org/solutions-summary-by-rank So there's a good deal more at stake here than just optimal protein digestibility uptake rates. Anecdotal, but I recently placed first in my age group and 5th overall in a trail marathon on a nearly vegan diet. Two other the other four in front of me were vegans. In another recent half marathon with over 1,000 runners, a near-vegan diet helped secure 4th out of 90 in my age group, close to the top 10% overall. I wasn't counting calories and certainly not protein. I did lose to close to 30 lbs while also getting faster. I used to have an "afternoon slump" at work, but that's rare now, even when running 7 miles before work. For more interviews with scientists, the Cowspiracy movie (bad name) helps explain why animal agriculture has ended up as a top cause of climate change, and the newer movie "What the Health" interviews a number of doctors and scientists about the relationship between plant-based foods and health.

lesiva 9y ago
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the original author was not arguing that we should eat meat for our protein. They were suggesting that if you get your protein from plant sources, you should make sure to hit a complete amino acid profile and you should understand that digestibility is also lower for plant-based proteins.
hokkos 9y ago
Cowspiracy has some bad science, but What the Health is pure lies. You should never get your science from documentaries they are all bullshit. https://www.quora.com/How-accurate-is-the-movie-Cowspiracy https://www.quora.com/How-accurate-is-the-movie-Cowspiracy https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/7/25/16018658/what-the-health-documentary-review-vegan-diet https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/7/25/16018658/wh... Even vegans agree : https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/ https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-... >As a vegan health professional, I am sometimes mortified to be associated with the junk science that permeates our community. And as an animal rights activist, I’m disheartened by advocacy efforts that can make us look scientifically illiterate, dishonest, and occasionally like a cult of conspiracy theorists.