3 ms·

I also referenced the cruelty? The point being that to get the same amount of energy out of milk/egg based products you'll need fewer animals than for meat base

I also referenced the cruelty? The point being that to get the same amount of energy out of milk/egg based products you'll need fewer animals than for meat based production (where animals have to grow for multiple months to years just to be slaughtered). Which means fewer animals will suffer to feed one person. It's obviously possible to reduce further.

cies 9y ago
Hard to compare the cruelty involved in breeding-for-slaughter, breeding-for-milking-then-slaughter or breeding-for-egg-laying-then-slaughter. Or to compare suffering in a chicken with the suffering of a cow. How many chicks convert to one cow? Bottom line is vegan, period. And even that line is blurry if you zoom in enough :)
- optimusclimb 9y ago
  Just in case you check your replies now and then - yes, you get what I was saying. One can opt out of meat and meat products for reasons of health (which are complicated and debatable, but a personal choice), reducing environmental impact, and not taking part in the way we currently handle animals for food. The latter one is complicated, as it is technically possible to opt out of supporting the chicken/cow "matrix" if you really truly only ever eat meat/eggs/dairy from animals that are raised, used, and finally killed on (likely) local farms that generally treat their animals with "dignity" for whatever that's worth until they kill them. I personally don't think that real free range cattle and chickens that are eventually slaughtered have bad lives for what they are - but being able to only eat such animals is definitely a choice only available to the upper-middle class and up, given the current system. But if you're a vegetarian and you routinely buy 48 egg cartons for $6 at your local safeway and eat tons of cheese? You just have a restrictive weird diet.

3 ms·

I also referenced the cruelty? The point being that to get the same amount of energy out of milk/egg based products you'll need fewer animals than for meat base

by anarazel 9y ago

cies 9y ago
Hard to compare the cruelty involved in breeding-for-slaughter, breeding-for-milking-then-slaughter or breeding-for-egg-laying-then-slaughter. Or to compare suffering in a chicken with the suffering of a cow. How many chicks convert to one cow? Bottom line is vegan, period. And even that line is blurry if you zoom in enough :)
- optimusclimb 9y ago
  Just in case you check your replies now and then - yes, you get what I was saying. One can opt out of meat and meat products for reasons of health (which are complicated and debatable, but a personal choice), reducing environmental impact, and not taking part in the way we currently handle animals for food. The latter one is complicated, as it is technically possible to opt out of supporting the chicken/cow "matrix" if you really truly only ever eat meat/eggs/dairy from animals that are raised, used, and finally killed on (likely) local farms that generally treat their animals with "dignity" for whatever that's worth until they kill them. I personally don't think that real free range cattle and chickens that are eventually slaughtered have bad lives for what they are - but being able to only eat such animals is definitely a choice only available to the upper-middle class and up, given the current system. But if you're a vegetarian and you routinely buy 48 egg cartons for $6 at your local safeway and eat tons of cheese? You just have a restrictive weird diet.