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I'm not trying to incite a flamewar here, and this will probably be downvoted to death. Well, the argument here should be: Men don't find education and accomp

I'm not trying to incite a flamewar here, and this will probably be downvoted to death. Well, the argument here should be: Men don't find education and accomplishment as attractive as women do - they find youth and beauty important also. Therefore, in order to attract a mate, logically women should try to attract a mate when they're younger, and try to improve the way they look. They should not be trying to get more educated or accomplish more in their careers. They can of course do whatever they want, but I have very little sympathy for people who recognize how reality is and don't try to act in ways that will optimize the probability of the outcome they want.

montaguy 9y ago
This
xor1 9y ago
>They can of course do whatever they want, but I have very little sympathy for people who recognize how reality is and don't try to act in ways that will optimize the probability of the outcome they want. Yep. I recognized that I was ugly, and I thought that this was the primary obstacle when it came to dating. I fixed that with surgery, and I was right.
- whatshisface 9y ago
  It's only a matter of time before we can pay CBT psychotherapists to give us good senses of humor and easy-to-be-around personalities. We're fast converging on a future where IQ and inherited wealth will be the only two fundamental positive qualities.
  - xor1 9y ago
    >We're fast converging on a future where IQ and inherited wealth will be the only two fundamental positive qualities. Genome editing might take care of IQ.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - jimmywanger 9y ago
    Why would we need to fix basic biology?
  - tomp 9y ago
    Fortunately, different people like different traits, so we'll definitely not be converging.
Oxitendwe 9y ago
>Therefore, in order to attract a mate, logically women should try to attract a mate when they're younger, and try to improve the way they look. They should not be trying to get more educated or accomplish more in their careers. Now that's ridiculous, why should women care about getting a mate, it's not like we have a sub-replacement birthrate or anything, or that having children later increases the chance of birth defects.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
golemiprague 9y ago
Good luck trying to explain this simple reality of life. Youth is very important to males because of the diminishing ability of women to reproduce as they get closer to 40, with males it is much later. It is biology 101 but today mentioning biology as a reason to anything related to the relations between sexes is a heresy.
- piva00 9y ago
  It's not a heresy if it isn't being reductionist. The problem is the reductionism towards a "simple and easy explanation", biology is one factor as so are other sociological ones, if you keep your argument just based on (what you've called) biology 101 you aren't wrong, you are just misguided, ill-informed or being malicious.
  - golemiprague 9y ago
    There is no social explanation though, because this phenomenon is true for all cultures and even all species. That's why they produce those articles again and again trying to find this elusive sociological explanation which doesn't exist and even if it did is not provable by standard scientific methods. Also, spare me the name calling.
pdfernhout 9y ago
Philip Greenspun makes a related point: http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science "What about personal experience? The women that I know who have the IQ, education, and drive to make it as professors at top schools are, by and large, working as professionals and making 2.5-5X what a university professor makes and they do not subject themselves to the risk of being fired. With their extra income, they invest in child care resources and help around the house so that they are able to have kids while continuing to ascend in their careers. The women I know who are university professors, by and large, are unmarried and childless. By the time they get tenure, they are on the verge of infertility. Speaking of fertility... A $400/hour divorce litigator said "Knowing what I know now, I could have made a lot more money going to a bar and working for one night than I have made by going to college, law school, and working for 20 years. It turns out that I was sitting on something worth a lot more than a law degree." What's the cash value of fertility compared to working in science? ... As explained in the Massachusetts chapter of Real World Divorce, child support can be collected until a child turns 23, and, as in all other states, is tax-free. How profitable is child support? By formula (2013-2017 guidelines), $40,000 per year can be obtained from a defendant earning $250,000 per year. However, the actual costs of a child can be collected on top of that $40,000, such as health insurance, day care or nanny, and a child's cash expenses. Subtracting the USDA-estimated $8000 per year incidental costs of a child, such as housing and food, each child yields only a $32,000 per year profit. Thus a woman would need to have two children in Massachusetts with $250,000-per-year defendants in order to exceed the after-tax personal spending power of a mid-career PhD biochemist. However, the present value of the child support plaintiff's earnings are larger because the income stream can start at age 18 or younger and does not require any investment in college or graduate school."
- Chris2048 9y ago
  > Knowing what I know now, I could have made a lot more money going to a bar and working for one night than I have made by going to college, law school, and working for 20 years Can you explain this to me? You can earn 20 years a lawyers salary by finding a high-earning man in a bar? Sure, I can do the same with lottery tickets..

montaguy 9y ago

This

xor1 9y ago

>They can of course do whatever they want, but I have very little sympathy for people who recognize how reality is and don't try to act in ways that will optimize the probability of the outcome they want. Yep. I recognized that I was ugly, and I thought that this was the primary obstacle when it came to dating. I fixed that with surgery, and I was right.

whatshisface 9y ago
It's only a matter of time before we can pay CBT psychotherapists to give us good senses of humor and easy-to-be-around personalities. We're fast converging on a future where IQ and inherited wealth will be the only two fundamental positive qualities.
- xor1 9y ago
  >We're fast converging on a future where IQ and inherited wealth will be the only two fundamental positive qualities. Genome editing might take care of IQ.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- jimmywanger 9y ago
  Why would we need to fix basic biology?
- tomp 9y ago
  Fortunately, different people like different traits, so we'll definitely not be converging.

Oxitendwe 9y ago

>Therefore, in order to attract a mate, logically women should try to attract a mate when they're younger, and try to improve the way they look. They should not be trying to get more educated or accomplish more in their careers. Now that's ridiculous, why should women care about getting a mate, it's not like we have a sub-replacement birthrate or anything, or that having children later increases the chance of birth defects.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

golemiprague 9y ago

Good luck trying to explain this simple reality of life. Youth is very important to males because of the diminishing ability of women to reproduce as they get closer to 40, with males it is much later. It is biology 101 but today mentioning biology as a reason to anything related to the relations between sexes is a heresy.

piva00 9y ago
It's not a heresy if it isn't being reductionist. The problem is the reductionism towards a "simple and easy explanation", biology is one factor as so are other sociological ones, if you keep your argument just based on (what you've called) biology 101 you aren't wrong, you are just misguided, ill-informed or being malicious.
- golemiprague 9y ago
  There is no social explanation though, because this phenomenon is true for all cultures and even all species. That's why they produce those articles again and again trying to find this elusive sociological explanation which doesn't exist and even if it did is not provable by standard scientific methods. Also, spare me the name calling.

pdfernhout 9y ago

Philip Greenspun makes a related point: http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science "What about personal experience? The women that I know who have the IQ, education, and drive to make it as professors at top schools are, by and large, working as professionals and making 2.5-5X what a university professor makes and they do not subject themselves to the risk of being fired. With their extra income, they invest in child care resources and help around the house so that they are able to have kids while continuing to ascend in their careers. The women I know who are university professors, by and large, are unmarried and childless. By the time they get tenure, they are on the verge of infertility. Speaking of fertility... A $400/hour divorce litigator said "Knowing what I know now, I could have made a lot more money going to a bar and working for one night than I have made by going to college, law school, and working for 20 years. It turns out that I was sitting on something worth a lot more than a law degree." What's the cash value of fertility compared to working in science? ... As explained in the Massachusetts chapter of Real World Divorce, child support can be collected until a child turns 23, and, as in all other states, is tax-free. How profitable is child support? By formula (2013-2017 guidelines), $40,000 per year can be obtained from a defendant earning $250,000 per year. However, the actual costs of a child can be collected on top of that $40,000, such as health insurance, day care or nanny, and a child's cash expenses. Subtracting the USDA-estimated $8000 per year incidental costs of a child, such as housing and food, each child yields only a $32,000 per year profit. Thus a woman would need to have two children in Massachusetts with $250,000-per-year defendants in order to exceed the after-tax personal spending power of a mid-career PhD biochemist. However, the present value of the child support plaintiff's earnings are larger because the income stream can start at age 18 or younger and does not require any investment in college or graduate school."

Chris2048 9y ago
> Knowing what I know now, I could have made a lot more money going to a bar and working for one night than I have made by going to college, law school, and working for 20 years Can you explain this to me? You can earn 20 years a lawyers salary by finding a high-earning man in a bar? Sure, I can do the same with lottery tickets..