7 ms·

Is Amazon forcing us to install their products even if we don't use it, and crippling our OS if we try to remove it? No. Is Amazon taking control of small compa

Is Amazon forcing us to install their products even if we don't use it, and crippling our OS if we try to remove it? No. Is Amazon taking control of small companies for their IP and then using it to sue competitors with frivolous lawsuits? (a la sco). Are they suing customers for using competing products? No, I don't think Amazon is doing these things. That link only really gets into the fact that they have a large market share. That alone does't make them a 90s era Microsoft.

zitterbewegung 9y ago
Under your criteria (which I agree with) Facebook and or Google would be a better fit. The problem is that those blog posts have already been written to death.
- mseebach 9y ago
  That's a funny definition of "the problem". The problem should be what's actually the problem, not what we can write novel blog posts about.
  - zitterbewegung 9y ago
    Well original creative reporting doesn’t have any money in it anymore .
coldtea 9y ago
>Is Amazon forcing us to install their products even if we don't use it, and crippling our OS if we try to remove it? No Is any thing in an analogy the same as the thing it points to? No. That's the very idea behind an analogy: that it points to something being alike between two entities, not about them being/doing same exact things (which wouldn't need an analogy) or totally unlike things (for which one wouldn't make sense). In this case, what Cringely wants you to think/see is not that Amazon "bundles it browser" or "sues Linux a la Sco", but how it's a huge monopoly, it uses its power as leverage, and it screws the little guys.
- mulmen 9y ago
  [citation needed]
  - coldtea 9y ago
    Citation for what? These are all well established facts. Might as well argue the round earth theory.
    - mikestew 9y ago
      Citation for what? I'd start with "huge monopoly". Unlike computing in the 90s, I can buy anything I want online without doing business with Amazon.
      - coldtea 9y ago
        Read the article? It talks about Amazon's Cloud business -- not the store.
        mikestew 9y ago
        I did read it, actually, poor as it was. And I stand by my statement, because in addition to Chinese knock-offs I can also buy online storage and VPS from any number of vendors, and Amazon need never get near my credit card number. Whether its Chinese knock-offs or online storage, Cringley fails to make the case for "huge monopoly" just like Microsoft. Microsoft got their OS monopoly via business practices that they arguably should have been (but weren't) convicted of. Amazon is taking over the world because...oh, I'll let Robert tell you in his own words: "Part of the reason AWS is gaining market share is because Microsoft’s Azure doesn’t boot virtual machines quite as fast." Well, those fuckers, with their crooked business dealings...wait a minute, did you just say a VM on Amazon's product boots faster than Microsoft's? Be right back... Of course, Cringley will proceed to tell us the awful outcome of this monopoly, just like it was back in the 90s and early 2000s with Microsoft: "Put simply, AWS is a pain to deal with if you are a customer big enough to be in personal communication and not just a credit card number. This, too, is like the old Microsoft." So, to recap, Amazon is taking over the world because they have a better product, but the downside is that their customer service sucks. Microsoft took over the world through questionable (some argue illegal) business practices, and the end result of that was that nearly every computer sold for 15 years had a "Microsoft tax" added. Yup, exactly the same. As I said, I can avoid doing business with Amazon just fine, whether I'm buying fidget spinners or a place to put a VM. I had no such option with the Microsoft of old.
kumarm 9y ago
Amazon Stores doesn't sell competitor products. Try buying Google Home on Amazon. Whats worse? Searching for Google Home returns results for Amazon Echo. You can find amazon apps on Google PlayStore though. Amazon is definitely the next Microsoft.
- kazinator 9y ago
  Or, the next Safeway? Try buying another grocery store's brand of milk at Safeway! The bastards only sell theirs. No wait, the next BMW! I tried to buy a Toyota and no BMW dealership would sell me one, can you believe it?
  - wlesieutre 9y ago
    The BMW dealer will sell you 80 different brands of carrot juicers though
    - kazinator 9y ago
      So what? That Safeway also sells plenty of things that are not their house brand (in addition to the house brand, or not). Nobody requires them to; they probably do that because it's profitable to them not because they are worried that someone will regard them as the next Microsoft in the pejorative sense. The fact that Amazon sells their device that is similar to Google's and not Google's is perfectly sensible, if they regard that as a strategic thing which is reasonable given what it is.
      - wlesieutre 9y ago
        Not that I think they should be required to carry everything, but it's stupid from a consumer perspective. All the home streaming and "smart speaker" devices have important differences in what they can do and what they're compatible with. They're not interchangeable. It'd be more like Safeway refusing to sell Mission brand tortillas because they have Safeway brand tortilla chips and that's basically the same thing, right? It's made from flour into thin layers and you eat it.
kazinator 9y ago
> Is Amazon forcing us to install their products even if we don't use it, and crippling our OS if we try to remove it? No. And is Microsoft buying a national grocery chain? Is Microsoft running a marketplace overrun with fake Chinese shit that takes 3 months to ship?
- longcheng 9y ago
  Is Amazon forcing shit-hunters to buy Chinese shit for cheap? You get what you pay. There are expensive high quality Chinese products whiners can't afford.
  - avenoir 9y ago
    You'd be surprised how many factory electronic components on Amazon are being advertised by "legitimate" vendors who are selling Chinese knockoffs. I just had a first-hand experience with this by purchasing a factory Nikon battery from what appears to be a legitimate Nikon dealer and receiving something that barely holds charge. It's not all so black and white.
  - Spooky23 9y ago
    No, Amazon is forcing buyers looking to purchase goods to accept counterfeit crap at retail prices. If I want a fake DVD, I can pay $3 in Chinatown, I don’t need to pay Amazon $20.
  - kazinator 9y ago
    If you stay within the "amazon.com" domain, it is often the case that this stuff is all you can find there, at any price for the class of thing you're looking for.
mikescandy 9y ago
ever tried a fire device?
simonbarker87 9y ago
Amazon do however clone popular, novel, branded products under their own Amazon Basics range so there’s that.
pentae 9y ago
Last time I checked Amazon didn't remove the headphone jack from my phone or my USB-A port from my new laptop either. Doesn't get any more evil than that, really.
- rad_gruchalski 9y ago
  It's not like they've removed these while stuff was in your pocket. Huh. Don't buy if you don't like it.
Fnoord 9y ago
Of course not, and Microsoft was the new IBM, but that doesn't mean it was a 1:1 clone. For a list of Amazon controversies, see [1]. It isn't complete. Example: it doesn't contain anything about MTurk [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon.com_controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon.com_controversies [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Mechanical_Turk#Labor_issues https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Mechanical_Turk#Labor_i...
solatic 9y ago
> Is Amazon forcing us to install their products Vendor lock-in is a pretty powerful tool. They may not be forcing anyone to "install" their systems into AWS, but once they're installed, they're too difficult to "uninstall." A fundamental requirement of free markets is for customers to be able to leave incumbents for new companies with fresher products that present a better value - if customers de-facto can't leave AWS, then AWS has monopoly power over those customers.
Spooky23 9y ago
Amazon is far more dangerous than 1990s Microsoft. Amazon is: - Using third party proxies to avoid accountability for sale of countfeit products, and liability for the same. - Using its market position and sock puppet partners to replicate and promote knockoff products. - Using its domination of book market share to bully book publishers into a accepting its terms, and capriciously raising prices and removing pre-order options to those the tow the line. (Hachette) - Notorious for poor working conditions, for both blue collar and white collar workforces. I could go on, at length. Amazon doesn’t force you to use your products, it instead raises the cost of everything you buy by owning the wholesale and distribution channels. Their UPS rates are the price floor. Their predatory tactics allow them to avoid collection of sales and use taxes — pushing them to the consumer. Their wholesale pricing is a price floor in many categories, or shared with WalMart. Amazon is a monopolist and negative force in the American economy. They exist with their current business practices because the US courts changed their interpretation of what a monopoly is, which is now strictly determined by how corporate actions impact consumer retail prices.

zitterbewegung 9y ago

Under your criteria (which I agree with) Facebook and or Google would be a better fit. The problem is that those blog posts have already been written to death.

mseebach 9y ago
That's a funny definition of "the problem". The problem should be what's actually the problem, not what we can write novel blog posts about.
- zitterbewegung 9y ago
  Well original creative reporting doesn’t have any money in it anymore .

coldtea 9y ago

>Is Amazon forcing us to install their products even if we don't use it, and crippling our OS if we try to remove it? No Is any thing in an analogy the same as the thing it points to? No. That's the very idea behind an analogy: that it points to something being alike between two entities, not about them being/doing same exact things (which wouldn't need an analogy) or totally unlike things (for which one wouldn't make sense). In this case, what Cringely wants you to think/see is not that Amazon "bundles it browser" or "sues Linux a la Sco", but how it's a huge monopoly, it uses its power as leverage, and it screws the little guys.

mulmen 9y ago
[citation needed]
- coldtea 9y ago
  Citation for what? These are all well established facts. Might as well argue the round earth theory.
  - mikestew 9y ago
    Citation for what? I'd start with "huge monopoly". Unlike computing in the 90s, I can buy anything I want online without doing business with Amazon.
    - coldtea 9y ago
      Read the article? It talks about Amazon's Cloud business -- not the store.
      - mikestew 9y ago
        I did read it, actually, poor as it was. And I stand by my statement, because in addition to Chinese knock-offs I can also buy online storage and VPS from any number of vendors, and Amazon need never get near my credit card number. Whether its Chinese knock-offs or online storage, Cringley fails to make the case for "huge monopoly" just like Microsoft. Microsoft got their OS monopoly via business practices that they arguably should have been (but weren't) convicted of. Amazon is taking over the world because...oh, I'll let Robert tell you in his own words: "Part of the reason AWS is gaining market share is because Microsoft’s Azure doesn’t boot virtual machines quite as fast." Well, those fuckers, with their crooked business dealings...wait a minute, did you just say a VM on Amazon's product boots faster than Microsoft's? Be right back... Of course, Cringley will proceed to tell us the awful outcome of this monopoly, just like it was back in the 90s and early 2000s with Microsoft: "Put simply, AWS is a pain to deal with if you are a customer big enough to be in personal communication and not just a credit card number. This, too, is like the old Microsoft." So, to recap, Amazon is taking over the world because they have a better product, but the downside is that their customer service sucks. Microsoft took over the world through questionable (some argue illegal) business practices, and the end result of that was that nearly every computer sold for 15 years had a "Microsoft tax" added. Yup, exactly the same. As I said, I can avoid doing business with Amazon just fine, whether I'm buying fidget spinners or a place to put a VM. I had no such option with the Microsoft of old.

kumarm 9y ago

Amazon Stores doesn't sell competitor products. Try buying Google Home on Amazon. Whats worse? Searching for Google Home returns results for Amazon Echo. You can find amazon apps on Google PlayStore though. Amazon is definitely the next Microsoft.

kazinator 9y ago
Or, the next Safeway? Try buying another grocery store's brand of milk at Safeway! The bastards only sell theirs. No wait, the next BMW! I tried to buy a Toyota and no BMW dealership would sell me one, can you believe it?
- wlesieutre 9y ago
  The BMW dealer will sell you 80 different brands of carrot juicers though
  - kazinator 9y ago
    So what? That Safeway also sells plenty of things that are not their house brand (in addition to the house brand, or not). Nobody requires them to; they probably do that because it's profitable to them not because they are worried that someone will regard them as the next Microsoft in the pejorative sense. The fact that Amazon sells their device that is similar to Google's and not Google's is perfectly sensible, if they regard that as a strategic thing which is reasonable given what it is.
    - wlesieutre 9y ago
      Not that I think they should be required to carry everything, but it's stupid from a consumer perspective. All the home streaming and "smart speaker" devices have important differences in what they can do and what they're compatible with. They're not interchangeable. It'd be more like Safeway refusing to sell Mission brand tortillas because they have Safeway brand tortilla chips and that's basically the same thing, right? It's made from flour into thin layers and you eat it.

kazinator 9y ago

> Is Amazon forcing us to install their products even if we don't use it, and crippling our OS if we try to remove it? No. And is Microsoft buying a national grocery chain? Is Microsoft running a marketplace overrun with fake Chinese shit that takes 3 months to ship?

longcheng 9y ago
Is Amazon forcing shit-hunters to buy Chinese shit for cheap? You get what you pay. There are expensive high quality Chinese products whiners can't afford.
- avenoir 9y ago
  You'd be surprised how many factory electronic components on Amazon are being advertised by "legitimate" vendors who are selling Chinese knockoffs. I just had a first-hand experience with this by purchasing a factory Nikon battery from what appears to be a legitimate Nikon dealer and receiving something that barely holds charge. It's not all so black and white.
- Spooky23 9y ago
  No, Amazon is forcing buyers looking to purchase goods to accept counterfeit crap at retail prices. If I want a fake DVD, I can pay $3 in Chinatown, I don’t need to pay Amazon $20.
- kazinator 9y ago
  If you stay within the "amazon.com" domain, it is often the case that this stuff is all you can find there, at any price for the class of thing you're looking for.

mikescandy 9y ago

ever tried a fire device?

simonbarker87 9y ago

Amazon do however clone popular, novel, branded products under their own Amazon Basics range so there’s that.

pentae 9y ago

Last time I checked Amazon didn't remove the headphone jack from my phone or my USB-A port from my new laptop either. Doesn't get any more evil than that, really.

rad_gruchalski 9y ago
It's not like they've removed these while stuff was in your pocket. Huh. Don't buy if you don't like it.

Fnoord 9y ago

Of course not, and Microsoft was the new IBM, but that doesn't mean it was a 1:1 clone. For a list of Amazon controversies, see [1]. It isn't complete. Example: it doesn't contain anything about MTurk [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon.com_controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon.com_controversies [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Mechanical_Turk#Labor_issues https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Mechanical_Turk#Labor_i...

solatic 9y ago

> Is Amazon forcing us to install their products Vendor lock-in is a pretty powerful tool. They may not be forcing anyone to "install" their systems into AWS, but once they're installed, they're too difficult to "uninstall." A fundamental requirement of free markets is for customers to be able to leave incumbents for new companies with fresher products that present a better value - if customers de-facto can't leave AWS, then AWS has monopoly power over those customers.

Spooky23 9y ago

Amazon is far more dangerous than 1990s Microsoft. Amazon is: - Using third party proxies to avoid accountability for sale of countfeit products, and liability for the same. - Using its market position and sock puppet partners to replicate and promote knockoff products. - Using its domination of book market share to bully book publishers into a accepting its terms, and capriciously raising prices and removing pre-order options to those the tow the line. (Hachette) - Notorious for poor working conditions, for both blue collar and white collar workforces. I could go on, at length. Amazon doesn’t force you to use your products, it instead raises the cost of everything you buy by owning the wholesale and distribution channels. Their UPS rates are the price floor. Their predatory tactics allow them to avoid collection of sales and use taxes — pushing them to the consumer. Their wholesale pricing is a price floor in many categories, or shared with WalMart. Amazon is a monopolist and negative force in the American economy. They exist with their current business practices because the US courts changed their interpretation of what a monopoly is, which is now strictly determined by how corporate actions impact consumer retail prices.