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“I broke this rule because I developed some of the code while I was a Visiting Scientist at Google, so I followed the Google style guide, which deviates from PE

“I broke this rule because I developed some of the code while I was a Visiting Scientist at Google, so I followed the Google style guide, which deviates from PEP 8 in a few places. Once I got used to Google style, I found that I liked it. And at this point, it would be too much trouble to change.” Why would you write a book that targets the Python community and ignore PEP8 styling, inconveniencing an entire community, simply because it would be too much trouble for you to change? “Also on the topic of style, I write “Bayes’s theorem” with an s after the apostrophe, which is preferred in some style guides and deprecated in others.” It is deprecated in all modern style guides and should not be used. You’ll get dinged in college English and writing classes for using this outdated and redundant style. I’m sure this book is great, but, as a point of constructive criticism, I would suggest the author do a better job at adhering to the styles of code and English expected by his target audience, rather than what is comfortable for him.

bubblesocks 9y ago
I'm not sure why you were down-voted. This is a valid point and as a college professor and author, I'm sure Downey would appreciate any feedback that would make his book better.
- bubblesocks 9y ago
  It looks like someone is overly sensitive to criticism. Instead of being a coward and voting valid comments down without comment, why don't you add to the discussion by stating why you think the comment was wrong/invalid/etc., thus enlightening the rest of us with your superiority?
  - appleiigs 9y ago
    I can't downvote. The author points out his differences and provides his reasons why. The criticism doesn't add any value to the conversation because it has been addressed already by the author himself.
    - bubblesocks 9y ago
      I disagree. In Python, the PEP8 standard is to use snake case for variables and function names. Classes should appear in this format: ClassName. Downey uses the class style for functions because, according to him, he feels it would be too inconvenient to do it the right way. This is a lazy cop-out. If you're writing a book targeting the Python community you should adhere to the Python PEP8 standards out of respect for your readers, if nothing else. The parent poster poses a valid question and it most definitely adds to the conversation because it calls into question the author's respect for his audience. How is what Downey did any different from me writing a book and stating that correct spelling, grammar, and editing would be too inconvenient for me, so I'm just going to type whatever I feel like and that should be OK, because I addressed my lack of quality and attention to detail during my introduction? By the way. Thanks for commenting.
      - srean 9y ago
        This comment is in such perfect harmony with https://www.cia.gov/news-information/featured-story-archive/2012-featured-story-archive/simple-sabotage.ht https://www.cia.gov/news-information/featured-story-archive/... Small mercies that Python community does not speak this.
  - sctb 9y ago
    Would you mind sticking to civil and substantive comments, and also resist complaining about voting? The guidelines are pretty clear. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
leephillips 9y ago
From the PEP8 style guide: "Many projects have their own coding style guidelines. In the event of any conflicts, such project-specific guides take precedence for that project." and "A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little Minds". And, throughout, PEP8 makes it clear that it is a set of recommendations, and that if a project or community already has an established style, it need not be changed.
- innocentoldguy 9y ago
  You misunderstand. I’m not criticizing Google not following PEP8. They’re welcome to make whatever modifications they want. I do the same. For example, I don’t like having two blank lines between methods and I don’t limit my line widths to 80 characters. This personal or project level alteration is fine. However, when your target audience is the Python community at large, you are better off following the PEP8 standard, which everyone knows and is comfortable with, rather that a project specific format, just because you personally find it more convenient. Standards are pretty important in the publishing industry, so I’m not sure why this is so controversial here today.
- franklin_cobb 9y ago
  Why are you arguing against PEP8? As you mentioned in your final sentence, the Python community DOES have an established standard. It is called PEP8. The parent has made a valid point. Why would you criticize or trash his "karma" for stating it?
  - leephillips 9y ago
    You say I'm arguing against PEP8 by quoting PEP8? That's hard to understand. Whose karma am I "trashing", and how? I certainly didn't downvote him, if that's what you mean.
TFortunato 9y ago
Others have already made the point about PEP8 being a guideline, so I just wanted to also point out that not all style guides would agress with you on Bayes'/'s theorem. Case in point, the APA style guide: http://blog.apastyle.org/apastyle/2013/06/forming-possessives-with-singular-names.html http://blog.apastyle.org/apastyle/2013/06/forming-possessive...

bubblesocks 9y ago

I'm not sure why you were down-voted. This is a valid point and as a college professor and author, I'm sure Downey would appreciate any feedback that would make his book better.

bubblesocks 9y ago
It looks like someone is overly sensitive to criticism. Instead of being a coward and voting valid comments down without comment, why don't you add to the discussion by stating why you think the comment was wrong/invalid/etc., thus enlightening the rest of us with your superiority?
- appleiigs 9y ago
  I can't downvote. The author points out his differences and provides his reasons why. The criticism doesn't add any value to the conversation because it has been addressed already by the author himself.
  - bubblesocks 9y ago
    I disagree. In Python, the PEP8 standard is to use snake case for variables and function names. Classes should appear in this format: ClassName. Downey uses the class style for functions because, according to him, he feels it would be too inconvenient to do it the right way. This is a lazy cop-out. If you're writing a book targeting the Python community you should adhere to the Python PEP8 standards out of respect for your readers, if nothing else. The parent poster poses a valid question and it most definitely adds to the conversation because it calls into question the author's respect for his audience. How is what Downey did any different from me writing a book and stating that correct spelling, grammar, and editing would be too inconvenient for me, so I'm just going to type whatever I feel like and that should be OK, because I addressed my lack of quality and attention to detail during my introduction? By the way. Thanks for commenting.
    - srean 9y ago
      This comment is in such perfect harmony with https://www.cia.gov/news-information/featured-story-archive/2012-featured-story-archive/simple-sabotage.ht https://www.cia.gov/news-information/featured-story-archive/... Small mercies that Python community does not speak this.
- sctb 9y ago
  Would you mind sticking to civil and substantive comments, and also resist complaining about voting? The guidelines are pretty clear. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

leephillips 9y ago

From the PEP8 style guide: "Many projects have their own coding style guidelines. In the event of any conflicts, such project-specific guides take precedence for that project." and "A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little Minds". And, throughout, PEP8 makes it clear that it is a set of recommendations, and that if a project or community already has an established style, it need not be changed.

innocentoldguy 9y ago
You misunderstand. I’m not criticizing Google not following PEP8. They’re welcome to make whatever modifications they want. I do the same. For example, I don’t like having two blank lines between methods and I don’t limit my line widths to 80 characters. This personal or project level alteration is fine. However, when your target audience is the Python community at large, you are better off following the PEP8 standard, which everyone knows and is comfortable with, rather that a project specific format, just because you personally find it more convenient. Standards are pretty important in the publishing industry, so I’m not sure why this is so controversial here today.
franklin_cobb 9y ago
Why are you arguing against PEP8? As you mentioned in your final sentence, the Python community DOES have an established standard. It is called PEP8. The parent has made a valid point. Why would you criticize or trash his "karma" for stating it?
- leephillips 9y ago
  You say I'm arguing against PEP8 by quoting PEP8? That's hard to understand. Whose karma am I "trashing", and how? I certainly didn't downvote him, if that's what you mean.

TFortunato 9y ago

Others have already made the point about PEP8 being a guideline, so I just wanted to also point out that not all style guides would agress with you on Bayes'/'s theorem. Case in point, the APA style guide: http://blog.apastyle.org/apastyle/2013/06/forming-possessives-with-singular-names.html http://blog.apastyle.org/apastyle/2013/06/forming-possessive...